Outside of maras/operatives what classes have the strongest burst atm?

Snipers seem to take big chunks of my heath.

 

Fury Marauder is clearly the best burst spec right now.

Snipers seem to take big chunks of my heath.

 

Fury Marauder is clearly the best burst spec right now.

 

Actually I believe currently AP PT's have the strongest burst in the game. Fury does clearly have the highest DPS, but pure burst, pound for pound, AP PT I believe takes the cake.

 

Irony being that Fury is not considered a 'burst spec' anymore, Carnage was always the quasi-burst spec prior to 5.0 but when BW wanted to buff Fury, they took sustained from Carnage and gave it to Fury and than declared Carnage "the burst spec" and than proceeded to nerf the hell out of Carnage's burst heh.

 

Technically speaking, Fury is considered the "quasi-burst" spec now. Even still, it does have better burst.

Edited October 8, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

Outside of maras/operatives what classes have the strongest burst atm?

 

PTs, Snipers, Mercs, and I have even had some Juggs that seemed to crush me with nice burst. Heck, even some sins can be pretty nasty! basically it's esier to say who lacks burst lol.

 

Worst burst in PVP has to be ling sorc. It's an utter joke.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Lhancelot

AP PT is still the undisputed king of burst, which also happens to be fairly frontloaded (little or no ramp up time needed, especially if you already have your Energy Lodes preloaded). It makes them very dangerous in the right hands, and when combined with their lack of anti-focus DCDs, it's also why they often get focused first by smarter players. Letting one run around DPSing is typically very bad for the other team.

AP PT is still the undisputed king of burst, which also happens to be fairly frontloaded (little or no ramp up time needed, especially if you already have your Energy Lodes preloaded). It makes them very dangerous in the right hands, and when combined with their lack of anti-focus DCDs, it's also why they often get focused first by smarter players. Letting one run around DPSing is typically very bad for the other team.

 

Ya, I miss the days before the switched the specs when AP was pyro and it had really good survivability. Those were some fun times.

Worst burst in PVP has to be ling sorc. It's an utter joke.

 

Lightning Sorc to a Sniper, “can you pass me a wet towel”

Rage Jugg has amazing burst, its very underrated for some reason.. Relatively straightforward, short cooldowns, constant big hits and good mobility.

AP PT taking 50% of your HP in 2 secs

Marksman, only tricky part is white dmg only pretty much

Mara too with Carnage and Fury is ok

PTs, Snipers, Mercs, and I have even had some Juggs that seemed to crush me with nice burst. Heck, even some sins can be pretty nasty! basically it's easier to say who lacks burst lol.

 

Worst burst in PVP has to be ling sorc. It's an utter joke.

 

Thing ya gotta keep in mind about Lightning -

 

It has two burst 'windows' in the time most other burst specs get one.

 

It's main burst attack is armor piercing, so it's damage is not mitigated by armor [ el la Carnage].

 

It is a burst spec with dots, which is kinda not what burst specs are suppose to have.

 

In terms of pure DPS it doesn't have the lowest DPS. Arsenal and Marksmen have over all lower DPS than it does.

 

And this last part is a personal opinion, but to me is very telling. Any DPS spec that can put out 1 mill + in healing in a WZ, quite frankly, in my opinion, their DPS should be garbage. - With that in mind it should be stated that Lightning is far from the only one guilty of that, and thus makes even that point uneven because you have many DPS specs healing is extreme amounts. To those. in my opinion, their DPS should be notably lower than it is.

 

I am of the opinion that their should be a direct ratio of heals to DPS. DCDs aren't the counterbalance to DPS. Heals are.

 

Damage takes health away.

DCDs mitigate incoming damage to some degree.

Heals return lost health back.

 

Heals to Damage is the natural counter-balance.

 

So while this means, from my point of view, there are quite a few DPS specs that are offenders in this regard, I am also of the notion that even if you were too to effect some heal to DPS changes, I thus remain of the opinion that of all the DPS specs in the game, DPS sorcs should have the best self heals of any DPS specs in the game,while maintaining a higher DPS output comparitvely. Common sence there, imo, they are force users.

 

Not excactly sure when Boba Fett and Darth Vader became neuro-surgeons on the side,thusly, their [Mercs, Juggs in this EXAMPLE] heals make far less sense than DPS sorcs.

 

One last thing about Lightning Sorcs. They are excellent against non-Fury Melee at keeping them at bay through kiting, slows and roots. IMO almost on par with Snipers in that specific regard. There are utility builds that can make them godly at kiting melee. If you gave them higher DPS with that option, they would be melee killers extrodinare. Certainly it is a build that takes skill and intelligent thinking, but as I have mentioned before [ pre-ban] I know of two Lightning sorcs that are absolute monsters, you are never beating them, and anytime I enter a WZ and see them on my team, I know for sure the best I can hope for is coming in 2nd for DPS. They will out DPS anyone. One of them is a poster here from time to time. [Very skilled player too be sure]. - To be fair though, you cannot judge a spec based on outlier performers.

 

I have nothing against sorcs, in fact, I love them. I don't play them, but, I don't play most of the classes now. But, if I am given the choice of any class to partner up with, I will pick a sorc every single time. They are useful as all hell,. they have a ton of utility and are the support-class extraordinaire. Sorcs help me out more than anyone, I love their varied utility, they have such diverse options and I personally do not see them as weak or helpless and I will pick a sorc as an ally above any other class in the game every single time, DPS or heal. One might argue the wisdom of my choice, but I have no doubts on it. I love them, best allies you can ask for. That said, they very much are a support class and that's what they excel at. Some might not like that definition, but, it is what it is and what it is is to my personal liking.

 

I'm not saying that Lightning can't use a tweek, I'm not saying that at all, just needs to be done with care. As far as ranged specs go, I don't see Lightning as a problem of overall design, I see mercs and Snipers as problems of design for ranged specs. Lightning or madness shouldn't be made more like them, Mercs and Snipers should be made more like Lighting or Madness, who are more in keeping with what Ranged DPS should be like. None facetanking, needing to kite and play smart vs melee.

 

Melee should have higher DPS than ranged.

 

Should Lightning be buffed? Yeah, it should be, but very carefully, as it shouldn't be superior than melee specs of similar purpose, the last thing this game needs is another OP ranged class, given that Sorcs are the only one left that isn't.

 

With regard to class balance, no point in addressing that any further now, we might as well wait til 6.0 [figureing early 2019] as reordering of the classes will undoubtedly be done than as it always is in a new meta. 5.x is a total class balance bust. Nothing can save it at this point.

 

My concern for 6.0 and class balance, well, if we see in 6.0 that Mercs can now fly, and Snipers can attack from orbit, might as well make Lightning the number one DPS spec in the game. It'll all be hopeless anyways than =p

 

In 6.0, I'm all for seeing Lighting be the TOP ranged spec of the meta. Mercs and Snipers, they got it coming.

Rage Jugg has amazing burst, its very underrated for some reason.. Relatively straightforward, short cooldowns, constant big hits and good mobility.

AP PT taking 50% of your HP in 2 secs

Marksman, only tricky part is white dmg only pretty much

Mara too with Carnage and Fury is ok

 

 

Yeah, nothing like an 11k burst attack in a 2 attack burst window to throw fear into your enemies hearts heh

 

Fury has better burst than Carnage, Quasi- Burst or not. Fury is better in every single imaginable way. Purely DPS wise, it's not even remotely close. Fury by 10 miles. Guess it's a white damage thing this meta. Even still tho, at least it has a slight edge on Lightning heh.

 

Far as burst. AP PT all day long =]

Edited October 9, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

Yeah, nothing like an 11k burst attack in a 2 attack burst window to throw fear into your enemies hearts heh

 

Fury has better burst than Carnage, Quasi- Burst or not. Fury is better in every single imaginable way. Purely DPS wise, it's not even remotely close. Fury by 10 miles. Guess it's a white damage thing this meta. Even still tho, at least it has a slight edge on Lightning heh.

 

Far as burst. AP PT all day long =]

 

 

Well seems to be capable of much more then 11k

Anyway it’s a choice for many top Teams atm and defo is viable and bursty spec. Dunno if better or worse then fury but certainly not as bad as many people make it out to be.

Rage Jugg has amazing burst, its very underrated for some reason.. Relatively straightforward, short cooldowns, constant big hits and good mobility.

AP PT taking 50% of your HP in 2 secs

Marksman, only tricky part is white dmg only pretty much

Mara too with Carnage and Fury is ok

 

Rage jugg doesn't have bad burst, its just the spec doesn't have the same perks a fury mara has.

Well seems to be capable of much more then 11k

Anyway it’s a choice for many top Teams atm and defo is viable and bursty spec. Dunno if better or worse then fury but certainly not as bad as many people make it out to be.

 

Capable of? Yes. But, you are very possibly getting those 11k-12k burst attacks on a regular basis no matter what and you are getting them more often than not, as in on every two out of three non-beserk ferocity windows. Given that non-ferocity windows consist of only two burst attacks and if one of those is 11-12k you are looking at a burst window in the 30k range, which, is horrible.

 

Let's not confuse what we are talking about here, capable of a quick kill under the right circumstances and working with others in a team for a desired effect employing a unified strategy with others, yes, good overall DPS, compared to most other DPS specs, not so much.

 

Fury DPS can reach 11k+ and they are not the only spec capable of that, and under the same conditions some other DPS can hit 11k, Carnage is topping out at 10.2 k as a pure DPS class, with no heals, no CC immunity, no off role abilitlies, and no group utility beyond a raid buff [no one needs a marauder to move fast, every spec in the game has it's own speed boosts]. Add to that that it is stuck with a beserk ability that it has absolutely no use for anymore and does nothing for it [can't use it for the high alacrity build, because you need that alacrity at all times, not just less than half the time, and you don't even want the high alacrity if you are playing Carnage because it's a straight DPS loss for the spec now on everything but a dummy and given Carnage had two consecutive DPS nerfs that reached almost 900 DPS on average accounts, you really don't want to nerf it further on purpose], it's overall DPS is poor comparitvely.

 

Every spec is viable in the right hands, but viable is different from good, great, or the best. Fury is better than Carnage in every single way in both PVP and PVE. Fury is King in 5.x.

 

I've been playing Carnage for the last 6 and half years straight, it has never been worse and that's coming from someone who is still playing it nonetheless and will continue to do so no matter it's state.

 

People are certainly entitled to their opinions however, whatever they might be.

Yeah man, lot of what you say is probably true but things like dps, parse, utility arent all that relevent if burst is a subject.

Sure they are all important but if I wanna do most dmg in shortest time I would choose Carnage cuz it does it good and I think its better at killing things then Fury, therefore I dont agree that Fury is better at everything. I respect you played Carnage for a long time and keep doing so and understand you wish it was better, I do too but it doesnt have a problem with its burst even if its comperatively worse then before. Its great in swaps and high dmg in hard stun window.

 

This is from yesterdays WZ - 125700 HP in ~ 10s to ilustrate what I mean that it has burst to kill things

https://vimeo.com/294308841

AP PT, has always been PT whether it be AP or Pyro back then or even that abomination of a hybrid that used to exist.

Yeah man, lot of what you say is probably true but things like dps, parse, utility arent all that relevent if burst is a subject.

Sure they are all important but if I wanna do most dmg in shortest time I would choose Carnage cuz it does it good and I think its better at killing things then Fury, therefore I dont agree that Fury is better at everything. I respect you played Carnage for a long time and keep doing so and understand you wish it was better, I do too but it doesnt have a problem with its burst even if its comperatively worse then before. Its great in swaps and high dmg in hard stun window.

 

This is from yesterdays WZ - 125700 HP in ~ 10s to ilustrate what I mean that it has burst to kill things

https://vimeo.com/294308841

 

That's why in my post I made a distinction between, burst, strategies with other players, and straight up DPS out put. Total damage is not DPS, it's the amount of damage you did. You also have to remember that classes and specs operate the same in PVE as in PVP but, because they are abit different the goalposts aren't always the same and so you have to bare in mind in how they perform in both areas. If one is doing well in one but not the other, the fact that it is doing well in one isn't sufficient grounds not to address a deceit in the other. As I was a HM/NiM Progression raider before I got into PVP, I have a mind to performance in both raiding and pvp and so some of my comments about balance have that in mind. In terms of overall general DPS output, that plays out the same no matter where you are playing. DPS is DPS.

 

If you tested what AP could so in 10's, it would have done a lot more.

 

As I said, everything is viable, people get killed by Lightning Sorcs [even if those peoples are playing a spec that isn't below them on the DPS chart] , PTs come in #1 in DPS [so obviously they can live long enough to come out first place even vs specs with better survivability] , Merc healers out HPS Sorc healers sometimes, it all works.

 

Point is, some are better at doing things over all than others, that's all. I'm still playing it too after all right? hehe No one's forcing me.

Edited October 10, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

This is from yesterdays WZ - 125700 HP in ~ 10s to ilustrate what I mean that it has burst to kill things

https://vimeo.com/294308841

 

Just curious, what gear are you running for that carnage? I don't care who you are, that's impressive you killed them that quick. I haven't seen a Fury kill someone that quick.

Carnage/Marksmanship is the best burst comp in PvP right now (even after the Carnage nerf). This is because both specs have great DCDs, team utility, short CDs on their mezzes and their burst combos have high uptime over a 5-minute period.

 

When it comes to burst, Fury doesn’t compare to Carnage. Carnage has hard-hitting abilities and its burst is up more often than Fury’s. Just because Fury parses higher overall, doesn’t mean it has the best burst output.

 

Yes, AP has good burst but it has a lot of downsides in PvP: it’s bad in comparison to something like a Carnage Marauder and struggles without the support of teammates. It has weak DCDs and its burst windows are very predictable: just pop your DCDs when Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique is about to go off. EZ Clap

 

The bottom line is that burst means nothing if you lack survivability. If someone wants to play a great burst class that is also tanky in PvP, Marksmanship Sniper or Carnage Marauder are solid choices.

Edited October 10, 2018 by rambolnet

Just curious, what gear are you running for that carnage? I don't care who you are, that's impressive you killed them that quick. I haven't seen a Fury kill someone that quick.

 

I have 248 Set and weapons but left side is 246 so still few points to gain, but currently at with Acc/Crit stim :

2010 Crit = 44.50%

15.47% Alacrity

4117 Power

7236 Mastery

I have 5x 236 Augs and rest are 228

 

Also what Rambolnet said is what I have experienced too.

Heck, even some sins can be pretty nasty! basically it's esier to say who lacks burst

 

Ive been playing my Sin and Shadow again and I’m surprised at how much damage per second I can do. When you line up the burst rotation and it crits, the damage is awesome, but it’s 2-3 bursts at once. Seperately they aren’t that massive.

I struggle to usually do over 5k on my rage Jugg and Fury Mara because my abilities don’t activate a lot of the time. But on my Sin I’m clocking over 6k sometimes.(thats in WZs, not dummy parsing)

Edited October 11, 2018 by Totemdancer

Ive been playing my Sin and Shadow again and I’m surprised at how much damage per second I can do. When you line the burst rotation and is crits, the damage is awesome, but it’s 2-3 bursts at once. Seperately they aren’t that massive.

I struggle to usually do over 5k on my rage Jugg and Fury Mara because my abilities don’t activate a lot of the time. But on my Sin I’m clocking over 6k sometimes.(thats in WZs, not dummy parsing)

 

I seen some sins that really hurt and are extremely good at staying on target, they are nearly as annoying as a good operative.

PTs, Snipers, Mercs, and I have even had some Juggs that seemed to crush me with nice burst. Heck, even some sins can be pretty nasty! basically it's esier to say who lacks burst lol.

 

Worst burst in PVP has to be ling sorc. It's an utter joke.

 

if you gave Lsorc more burst then there mobility would need to be curtailed

There has to be a trade off otherwise you end up were we are now Merc, sniper, Jug/mara(fury) I win classes

Edited October 11, 2018 by Kazz_Devlin

if you gave Lsorc more burst then there mobility would need to be curtailed

There has to be a trade off otherwise you end up were we are now Merc, sniper, Jug/mara(fury) I win classes

 

Don't get me started about how stupid snipers are right now. They are practically tanks. They need to lose about half of their defensive utilities.

if you gave Lsorc more burst then there mobility would need to be curtailed

 

No, not the mobility, the healing. The mobility is fine under the current meta because every class is a speed demon. It’s the healing that would be OP if they had more burst.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Totemdancer