This is no longer allowed.

My only question is this...

Why?

I get having such restrictions in RANKED, but in unranked, what is the problem...

All you've done is again tell people how to play your game instead of letting us choose how we play.

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*line removed* <---- They did announce it and I missed the post. A reply in this thread has informed me of this fact. Thanks to the person who provided this info.

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So what, unranked matches now only allow one tank per side when you group queue? How is that even legit?

The smart thing to do would be to just block groups from queuing into arena wz's as 2 tanks, but blocking 2 tanks from queuing together for 8v8 is just stupid.

Now I am forced to queue alone if I ever want to run my tank through wz's, leaving my other guild member bassically to be forced to do the same, resulting in us not being allowed to play together.

This change was never asked for, was never wanted, and only results in people like me never queuing as tank again.

Now I understand why no tanks queue for wz's anymore...

Bioware doesn't want them doing pvp unless they are solo players.

-10 score Bioware.

Worst change you ever made.

This is no longer allowed.

 

My only question is this...

 

Why?

 

I get having such restrictions in RANKED, but in unranked, what is the problem...

 

All you've done is again tell people how to play your game instead of letting us choose how we play.

 

Not only was this placed in without telling us, but the logic behind it is utterly stupid.

 

So what, unranked matches now only allow one tank per side when you group queue? How is that even legit?

The thing is: you queue two tanks and 1 more premade queues two tanks and then you basically block all non-premade tanks to get a pop with either of you. The idea is to cap each premade at half of the maximum legit 8m group so that they are compatible with any other premade without the need to increase pop times.

The smart thing to do would be to just block groups from queuing into arena wz's as 2 tanks, but blocking 2 tanks from queuing together for 8v8 is just stupid.

As much as I would love to see arenas fully separated from the normal queue, population and pop times do not practically allow it.

Now I am forced to queue alone if I ever want to run my tank through wz's, leaving my other guild member basically to be forced to do the same, resulting in us not being allowed to play together.

Are all your friends and guild members tanks? The only problem is you can't queue with tanks while playing as a tank yourself. You can queue with tanks while you are a DPS and can queue with DPS while you are a tank and add a healer in the mix in both times. The inconvenience of not being able to specifically queue with another tank as a tank is by far less annoying by the inconvenience caused when your main is nerfed. Clearly, nobody expects BW not to nerf FOTMs because many people enjoy playing them because we all understand the greater good requires these nerfs. Same goes for blocking 2 tanks in 1 premade, especially now after the patch that supposedly one tank now is nearly 2 tanks then.

This change was never asked for, was never wanted, and only results in people like me never queuing as tank again.

 

Now I understand why no tanks queue for wz's anymore...

 

Bioware doesn't want them doing pvp unless they are anti-social solo players.

 

-10 score Bioware.

 

Worst change you ever made.

Many people, in fact, complained a lot of time against support stacking in PVP and specifically in premade PVP. One would even argue that in some situations stacking tanks is even more irritating than stacking healers. And tanks do still queue last I checked, though you obviously see less in your group because you are a tank so (as long as the matchmaking is working as intended) you SHOULD be 100% or 50% of the tanks in your group, and not less.

And calling all solo players anti-social is at best absolute ignorance. You may wish to apologize for insulting 50-60% of the player base of this game. People queue solo because they play in odd hours, have little time, queue for multiple things at once or are simply less dependent in their PVP playstyle.

This is no longer allowed.

 

My only question is this...

 

Why?

 

I get having such restrictions in RANKED, but in unranked, what is the problem...

 

All you've done is again tell people how to play your game instead of letting us choose how we play.

 

Not only was this placed in without telling us, but the logic behind it is utterly stupid.

 

So what, unranked matches now only allow one tank per side when you group queue? How is that even legit?

 

The smart thing to do would be to just block groups from queuing into arena wz's as 2 tanks, but blocking 2 tanks from queuing together for 8v8 is just stupid.

 

Now I am forced to queue alone if I ever want to run my tank through wz's, leaving my other guild member bassically to be forced to do the same, resulting in us not being allowed to play together.

 

This change was never asked for, was never wanted, and only results in people like me never queuing as tank again.

 

Now I understand why no tanks queue for wz's anymore...

 

Bioware doesn't want them doing pvp unless they are anti-social solo players.

 

-10 score Bioware.

 

Worst change you ever made.

Why?

Simple answer : cancer is bad.Best change ever made. I have no sympathy for you or your cancer premade.

Thanks for your input, move along now.

Tl;dr version: Bad premade is sad premade because can no longer tank stack

Nothing to see here.

More importantly, why is your tank so bad you need more than 1 per 4 man? Seriously, most WZ i can solo tank and not die once, with the level of players currently out there.

im thinking you just werent clever enough to understand what he was ACTUALLY trying to say. no where did he say he wanted 2 tanks because his wasnt good enough. he simply wanted to play with another tank. reading is OP! i wish they still taught it in school so little kids like you might know what theyre responding to

im thinking you just werent clever enough to understand what he was ACTUALLY trying to say. no where did he say he wanted 2 tanks because his wasnt good enough. he simply wanted to play with another tank. reading is OP! i wish they still taught it in school so little kids like you might know what theyre responding to

Maybe its you that needs schooling in critical thinking. Why would he want to queue with another tank, unless:

A. Neither of them is capable of dps or healing

B. one of them is so bad they need carrying.

Maybe its you that needs schooling in critical thinking. Why would he want to queue with another tank, unless:

A. Neither of them is capable of dps or healing

B. one of them is so bad they need carrying.

You are wrong...

Neither of us are bad. We just wanted to get our conquest on our tanks together using warzones cause they are easy to tag-team stupid dps on using taunting circles to constantly keep the dps screwed over for damage against each of us, since real tanks have notoriously low damage output. (We are not skank tanks. We use actual proper tanking gear.)

And yes, I hate seeing tank-stacking in 4v4 too, but I was really hopeing we'd just be shunted into 8v8 where having 2 tanks would help our team out since I rarely ever see tanks queue up.

I love how people instantly assume someone is bad because they want to play together using 2 of the same class and role...

Please pull your head out of your back-side and stop thinking you know everything.

More importantly, why is your tank so bad you need more than 1 per 4 man? Seriously, most WZ i can solo tank and not die once, with the level of players currently out there.

If you actually read the post, you would realize I was looking to be put into 8v8 rounds...

Not 4v4... And yes, I don't like role-stacking in 4v4's.

But in 8v8's, what does it matter? there is 6 other people... And 8 more on the other team.

Uhm, this change was made TWO patches ago. It was announced in several threads, including an official bioware post. It was on the PTS for a couple weeks, where we were specifically asked to test it out and comment. I don't know where the OP has been, but really? NOW it's being complained about.

I hadn't realized it was done that long ago since I hadn't actually been watching the forums in regards to warzone changes.

Thanks for providing information.

It still annoys me, but at least now I know they at least said something about it.

I was just hoping to cap some conquest with my friend on our tanks through warzones cause they are fast, easy content to casually play through, but oh well.

And calling all solo players anti-social is at best absolute ignorance. You may wish to apologize for insulting 50-60% of the player base of this game. People queue solo because they play in odd hours, have little time, queue for multiple things at once or are simply less dependent in their PVP playstyle.

You're right, alot of solo's aren't anti-social...

I was just a bit angry, so the language I used was a bit harsh...

I'll correct it now that I've had a chance to cool off some.

If you actually read the post, you would realize I was looking to be put into 8v8 rounds...

 

Not 4v4... And yes, I don't like role-stacking in 4v4's.

 

But in 8v8's, what does it matter? there is 6 other people... And 8 more on the other team.

Im talking about 8v8 too. As a premade, why take 2 tanks and rely on randoms for damage or healing? 4 people the optimum setup is 2d, 1h, 1t. This allows you to basically carry anyone who's not a total moron, so the point still stands.

Either one of the tanks needs carrying or neither of you is capable of filling some other role.

Im talking about 8v8 too. As a premade, why take 2 tanks and rely on randoms for damage or healing? 4 people the optimum setup is 2d, 1h, 1t. This allows you to basically carry anyone who's not a total moron, so the point still stands.

 

Either one of the tanks needs carrying or neither of you is capable of filling some other role.

I guess you just can't read...

We were playing our tanks together to get conquest...

I have plenty of dps chars, but they are conquest capped. The same is true of my friend.

Stop assuming we bad just cause we don't want to use other characters...

I really hate it when people stop using their brain before they reply to a thread.

I won't bother replying to you anymore unless you actually read what I've written in this reply, as well as other replies.

I guess you just can't read...

 

We were playing our tanks together to get conquest...

 

I have plenty of dps chars, but they are conquest capped. The same is true of my friend.

 

Stop assuming we bad just cause we don't want to use other characters...

 

I really hate it when people stop using their brain before they reply to a thread.

 

I won't bother replying to you anymore unless you actually read what I've written in this reply, as well as other replies.

I main tanks and (used to) push conquest every week on up to 15 characters (pre alt nerf) / 8 (post alt nerf on weeks with at least 2 rampages).

The overwhelming majority of these involved doing pvp on my dozen or so guardian tanks. If someone else wanted to tank, i could always go dps on them.

The point is: running 2 tanks was simply dumb and hindered whatever team you ended up on. (And, by the way, these changes ruined the game for me, due to the "rating", so im hardly in favor of them).

Its a one off 200k per toon for the ability to respec anywhere, anytime. Thats hardly undoable. Or you can do FP for conquest. Its worth more (725 to 450) and the role doesnt matter for vet mode. If respeccing is not an option, then it comes back to whst i said - neither of you is capable of dpsing.

And again, the "rating" changes that came with this matchmaking system ruined this game for me - I'm hardly an advocate.

But in 8v8's, what does it matter? there is 6 other people... And 8 more on the other team.

What does it matter? How long have you been playing this game? How much WZ PvP have you done? If you've done any significant amount of either, this seems very disingenuous to me. The problem is that you don't queue into a vacuum. If you and your BFF both queue up as tanks together, and out of the 6 "other" PUGs you get, say for the sake of argument that 4 of them are a trinity premade (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS), and the two remaining PUGs end up being another tank and a healer, your team now has 4 tanks and 2 healers. The other team could just easily end up with zero tanks and zero healers. Have you played against a team in regular WZs that has 4 tanks and 2 healers with none on your team? I have. It's a miserable experience. So while you queue up with your BFF tank to do Conquest, not giving a frack about anyone else who's also trying to enjoy the same game you're playing, the result is that it can easily lead to an extremely unbalanced match that just sucks the life out of PvP for the unlucky 8 SoBs that end up on the other side.

And while the example I provided was admittedly on the extreme side of the pendulum, it did happen and tank/healer stacking in general was out of control. This is why the changes were made, for the benefit of everyone playing to have the best chance at getting a more fair and fun match for all participants. The residual problem that Kendra alluded to is the "rating" used for matchmaking, and how that's negatively impacted her premades in WZs, which is an entirely new and different problem.

The residual problem that Kendra alluded to is the "rating" used for matchmaking, and how that's negatively impacted her premades in WZs, which is an entirely new and different problem.

This is assuming matchmaking is working like this. I have seen zero evidence it works so blaming it for putting decent players with a team of idiots due to some algorithmic formula is just a theory as to how "bads" get put on a team of good players.

I think it's a luck of the draw tbh. I think at best there is an initial basic matchmaking attempt by the game, but if someone leaves the queue the game will just place whoever it can if a class isn't available to replace the class that dropped queue.

The game doesn't have some unseen statistics it is measuring to use for matchmaking though, despite Eric mentioning some "hidden" stats they had available to use for matchmaking. I think he let one cat out the bag too soon and it never panned out anyway.

I agree though I don't have a problem with them limiting how many of a class groups... Class stacking can be bad especially if it's tanks and heals.

Imagine a group of pals that just love their healers so much, the four of them would get together every night to queue up WZs in a group together. This would ruin every match they were in. Obviously it's better to eliminate this type of scenario even if that means ruining the "fun" these four pals have queuing a premade of 4 healers.

I got to admit though, this isn't much worse than when 4 stealth dps premades are made and they tunnel targets together and troll the spawn area of a match when possible. Seen that many times too and nothing to stop that from happening still.

I get what both Mournblood and Lhancelot are saying, and it wasn't like we were doing it all day everyday.

We just pvp occassionally.

This just happened to be one of those times we both had already capped all our dps chars already, so we were just gonna do a few runs together on our tanks for the conquest..

Given that I now know that the system is goofy like this, we won't be trying a 2-tank queue again, obviously, but it just tweaked me that the system now enforces such restrictions.

Noone asked for this change, and it doesn't really prevent vastly unbalanced teams anyways, as others have pointed out...

I see teams with overwhelming inbalance still... There are times when I'll queue in and my team has no healers and all dps while the other team has at least 1-2 tanks, 1-2 heals, and the rest all stealth classes, which just makes us lose anyways.

If they really want to make things fair, then remove the ability to queue premades entirely and force the game to entirely rely on the match-making sytem to draw from ONLY solo-queuing players.

IMHO, the thing that is constantly killing the game is when one side has premades while the other has totally random solos. I can't even tell you the number of times I get these matches where one side is always 2 premade teams of 3/4 and the other is just random folks tossed together.. Those are the games that make me cringe at doing regular warzones.

I don't like pvp as is, and when I get the inspiration to go play, it always seems that the system is so horribly broken that it makes me not want to play warzones at all.

Frustration aside, it just seems that the oppressive restrictions they are pushing 'in good faith to make the games more fair' are just garbage words. All these restrictions have done is make me not want to do warzones even more.

In any case, I'll now know for the future to just not use my tank characters anymore. I'll just have to plan out my conquest better so I don't ever have to run into this type of scenario again. It's a bit sad that me and my friend now have to adjust our game play to compinsate for this dumb change.

The more they screw around with the pvp queuing system, the worse it gets, and I have yet to see it actually work in such a way that games actually feel balanced.

That said, I'm pretty much done with pvp. I'll still do group ranked cause at least that still functions somewhat reliably balanced because of the premade grouping function that group ranked allows.

As for solo-ranked, that is still just a joke cause the teams are never balanced. I always end up on a team of all dps against teams with a tank, a healer, and 2 dps and we just get destroyed anyways.

Its because of groups like yours that i had to compensate.

People moaned about slow queues --> crossfaction

People moaned about matchmaking --> matchmaking

People moaned about premades --> every time i pvp i get the biggest clouts on the server on my team because i spent the last two years doing nothing but winning.

And as far as this issue not existing, for premade groups it does. It would seem that, at some point, random matchmaking would give the sorc wearing tank pt gear and the mara with one lightsaber to someone else. The fact they ended up with me for 4 hours straight implies that either I am very unlucky or something else is going on.

Honestly, every time i get a swtor itch and log in, this nightmare reminds me why i stopped. And seeing as at least 3 pvp oriented guilds have practically self destructed over this says something.

If they really want to make things fair, then remove the ability to queue premades entirely and force the game to entirely rely on the match-making sytem to draw from ONLY solo-queuing players.

This is actually a valid point.

They could force premades to be matched against premades, and then have solo queued players actually face nothing but true solo queued players. If the premades had to wait longer, then that's their choice.

The complaint to this would be, "Hey just because you don't have friends and can't make a premade doesn't mean I should get punished and have longer queue times waiting to get a match versus other premades!"

I honestly would be fine if solo queued players only faced other solo queued, and premades had their own queues. I can see both sides of the coin too.

Fact is matchmaking would be tons easier if premades were eliminated.

Well they seem to be heading that way... announced some guild v guild pvp thing today in the livestream.

I doubt the population is left to support strictly guild v guild.

Well they seem to be heading that way... announced some guild v guild pvp thing today in the livestream.

 

I doubt the population is left to support strictly guild v guild.

Fortunately I'll be long gone by then. But to put this in perspective for others, guild premades were a natural occurrence of players wanting to play with their friends and guildmates in PvP. It didn't necessarily start off as guilds wanting to have an advantage over other players, but eventually it turned into that as more and more guilds started doing premades, and if you wanted to be competitive in regular WZs, you had to bring your own.

While it probably would be better for the overall health of the game to separate those queues, as Kendra already mentioned, I don't think the game has the population density to support it, and you'd ultimately end up killing what few PvP guilds are left in the game. Bottom line, you'd lose players.

The flip side to that coin, having solo queued at times when I was off-schedule from my own guild, you invariably end up with 7 window lickers on your team versus 4 if you had brought your own premade. There's a lot less teamwork, coordination, and cohesion on a 8-man PUG team than there is with a premade (who are usually in voice chat with each other). That can get real frustrating real fast.

So there's no perfect solution here, but keep in mind that there are other factors impacting WZs right now besides premades, such as players not being appropriately geared (there's no minimum gear rating to substitute for Expertise), players who AFK or troll matches, players who deathmatch and ignore objectives, and some players who literally stepped into PvP for the first time at level 70 and just don't have any experience. Those are all problems that need to be addressed if you're ever going to see solo queues work the way everyone is hoping they would. Otherwise, all you're going to get is the cancer that is now Solo Ranked.

On DM there is literally not a single premad that goes on voice and plays regs ...

Only advantage of grouping is minimizing a number of inexperienced players in your team and if more players were decent then it wouldn’t even be needed.

There is also zero pvp guilds that do regs or even saying pvp guild is pushing it, which is sad tbh and it was better in the past when there was lots of premade sand games were somewhat competitive.

I rarely get a match that isn’t a complete stomp one way or the other regardless of there being any groups on either side.

Separating q wouldn’t do anything cuz as said population is small and also skill is low so it’s hard to ever get more then couple of experienced players on team.