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UPDATE: Loot boxes in three video games in violation of gambling legislation


Bristol

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April 25, 2018 09:31 • Press release

 

The Belgian Gaming Commission has determined that randomized loot boxes in at least three games count as "games of chance," and publishers could therefore be subject to fines and prison sentences under the country's gaming legislation.

 

Google Translated

 

At the request of Minister of Justice Koen Geens, the Gaming Commission conducted a thorough investigation into 'loot boxes' in video games. Players can buy a 'loot box' against payment - which can give them an advantage in the game - without knowing their content in advance. The Gaming Commission now judges that this is at least three video games in violation of the gambling legislation. 'An interview with the sector is imminent. It is often children who come into contact with such systems and we can not allow that, 'says Minister of Justice Geens.

 

The issue of the loot boxes came recently in the media when the game Star Wars Battlefront II was launched. In that game people could buy an advantage with real money without knowing what benefit it would be. Given the importance of the protection of minors and vulnerable players, this was very worrying. Minister Geens then requested an investigation from the gambling committee.

 

The Gaming Commission investigated four video games: Star Wars Battlefront II, Overwatch, FIFA 18 and Counter Strike: Global Offensive. They all belong to the genre AAA games, being video games that reach millions of people around the world, often produced by large studios. Those video games are connected to their own age system (PEGI). That system decides on the content of video games, but does not consider whether there is systematic use, winning or losing of real money.

 

However, developers are increasingly using systems to get players to real money once they have purchased a game. The Gaming Commission is talking about:

 

Emotional profit forecast: uncertainty loot box is linked to profit forecast;

A player may think that the purchase of a loot box gives an advantage, which is not always the case

Confusion of fiction and reality: well-known real people promote the most expensive loot boxes;

Use your own coin system: for a real amount, players can buy in-game coins;

Apparently infinite methods to deposit money on player accounts;

Hide from the random generator or at least its opacity.

To speak of a game of chance, the Gaming Commission uses four parameters. If there is a game element , a bet can lead to profit or loss and chance has a role in the game. In the case of FIFA 18, Overwatch and Counter Strike: Global Offensive, the Gaming Commission decides that the system of loot boxes forms a game of chance that is subject to Belgian gaming law. The developer of Star Wars Battlefront II made some adjustments shortly after the launch, so that the system of loot boxes in that game no longer technically forms a game of chance.

 

Although the system of loot boxes in the three other video games can be seen as a game of chance, there is always lack of protection for the players. The fact that it is often minor players is worrying. The hidden character of gambling is extra problematic in the case of children. If this is not properly arranged, games of chance in video games will cause great damage to people, family and society.

 

The games with paid loot boxes, as currently offered in our country, are therefore in violation of the gaming legislation and can be dealt with under criminal law. The loot boxes must therefore also be removed. If that does not happen, the operators risk a prison sentence of up to five years and a fine of up to 800,000 euros. When minors are involved, those punishments can be doubled.

Edited by Bristol
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Has been coming a while now and is a topic in many countries (including Germany & France which last time I checked have those localized servers). But also the EU as a collective seemed to be looking at it to make it illegal in most of the connected countries... That would mean the next server merge could be a result and since the west and east coast servers are both in the same area physically they can merge everything into one mega/micro server.

 

This became a topic especially when EA had their other title also SW related I believe, which made them react to this negative publicity. Only time can tell though if it has any effect here, but the trend seems to be that to have the lootboxes the game will have to be at least 18+. It's just that laws are always out of date and it takes governments time to admit that lootboxes are indeed gambling, but they are getting there.

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This became a topic especially when EA had their other title also SW related I believe, which made them react to this negative publicity. Only time can tell though if it has any effect here, but the trend seems to be that to have the lootboxes the game will have to be at least 18+. It's just that laws are always out of date and it takes governments time to admit that lootboxes are indeed gambling, but they are getting there.

 

I'm curious to see how far this is going to go, if it's only going to go after purely power enhancing loot boxes (bf2, NFs, Madden, Fifa... all games made by EA... lul) or if there really going to go the full route and even get cosmetic ones like overwatch and Cs:GO as well. I wonder how there mobile games are going to go as well, as mobile games are entirely built on progression through loot boxes for the best upgrades/heroes.

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Hahahaha :) I'll bet Disney didn't want this. I stopped *Buying cartel packs a long time ago seeing as simply a waste of money (With my Luck atleast). E.A. went too far and now laws are changing because of them. While the "Star Wars" resurgence is going and what does E.A. do, they destroy 2 games and leave SWTOR to wither on the vine in favor of making money off of their new clone of everybody else's games.
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Are the countries worried about kids gambling going to start going after all of the toy manufacturers that make blind bags targeted to young children? I kind of hope they do. In the past 10 years blind bags have really taken over the toy industry. They are some of the highest theft items too, because lots kids that don't have the money for them resort to theft.
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Is this that Dutch law from last week? If so, those were deemed illegal because the gambled upon goods were able to be sold for cash. I know we'd all love to see gamble crates go away, but this doesn't apply here.
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Is this that Dutch law from last week? If so, those were deemed illegal because the gambled upon goods were able to be sold for cash. I know we'd all love to see gamble crates go away, but this doesn't apply here.

 

Cs:GO skins can be given and traded to other people for actual money, apparently even some casinos can accept skins as well (can't fully confirm this, only heard rumors). Can't you also sort of sell your account to give away the stuff, or is that like a workaround to the system and it doesn't really count?

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Cs:GO skins can be given and traded to other people for actual money, apparently even some casinos can accept skins as well (can't fully confirm this, only heard rumors). Can't you also sort of sell your account to give away the stuff, or is that like a workaround to the system and it doesn't really count?

 

Selling your account is a whole other thing.

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Is this that Dutch law from last week? If so, those were deemed illegal because the gambled upon goods were able to be sold for cash. I know we'd all love to see gamble crates go away, but this doesn't apply here.

 

Yep... it's the "cash-out" to real money pathway that crossed the line... not random boxes per se.

 

As with many things in life.. it's not the method, it's the outcome that gets the scrutiny.

 

Also.. for all of you claiming Disney will hate this...yada yada... note specifically in the quoted article.. that Battlefront II made adjustments shortly after released and the government is satisfied with said adjustments and Battlefront II is fine here. And for those of you with your jimmies in a bunch about loot boxes here..... clearly.... loot boxes are not anathema under this ruling, just certain characteristics in how they are handled economically.. and so you will get no relieve from loot boxes in SWTOR.

 

This ruling does remove a good amount of the ambiguity with respect to random loot boxes, and that is a good thing.. as it makes it more clear for companies what is and what is not acceptable. This effectively puts some clear limits on games that essentially fund completely through non-subscription monetization methods.

Edited by Andryah
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Cs:GO skins can be given and traded to other people for actual money, apparently even some casinos can accept skins as well (can't fully confirm this, only heard rumors). Can't you also sort of sell your account to give away the stuff, or is that like a workaround to the system and it doesn't really count?

 

It is a violation of terms of service in all games I am aware of to actually sell (or barter) your account to someone else. In many cases, they do not even allow you to "give it away" at "no charge" (because that is just a sleight of hand on the part of the two parties to try to avoid the ToS). This stance has been challenged over the years, and such challenges have failed.... so clearly the courts side with the ToS in cases like this.

Edited by Andryah
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This became a topic especially when EA had their other title also SW related I believe, which made them react to this negative publicity.

 

Important to actually read everything in the article .. not just cherry pick. :)

 

The developer of Star Wars Battlefront II made some adjustments shortly after the launch, so that the system of loot boxes in that game no longer technically forms a game of chance.
Edited by Andryah
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Are the countries worried about kids gambling going to start going after all of the toy manufacturers that make blind bags targeted to young children? I kind of hope they do. In the past 10 years blind bags have really taken over the toy industry. They are some of the highest theft items too, because lots kids that don't have the money for them resort to theft.

 

I doubt it. Card Collectors packs have been around for more than 50 years.. and the methodology is exactly the same. And they have existed specifically targeted at kids through most of this.. not just the ever popular "sports cards".

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Yep... it's the "cash-out" to real money pathway that crossed the line... not random boxes per se.

 

As with many things in life.. it's not the method, it's the outcome that gets the scrutiny.

 

Also.. for all of you claiming Disney will hate this...yada yada... note specifically in the quoted article.. that Battlefront II made adjustments shortly after released and the government is satisfied with said adjustments and Battlefront II is fine here. And for those of you with your jimmies in a bunch about loot boxes here..... clearly.... loot boxes are not anathema under this ruling, just certain characteristics in how they are handled economically.. and so you will get no relieve from loot boxes in SWTOR.

 

This ruling does remove a good amount of the ambiguity with respect to random loot boxes, and that is a good thing.. as it makes it more clear for companies what is and what is not acceptable. This effectively puts some clear limits on games that essentially fund completely through non-subscription monetization methods.

 

Pretty much this + kodrac's first post. If you'd spend a little time digging into the specifics other than going by the 'sensational' headline, this has no bearing whatsoever on SWTOR or the 'average' lootbox. It will be nothing more than a minor hiccup for most developers.

 

And to add to the Dutch law part (could even be EU, I don't honestly remember), there are actually propositions in place to make gambling legislation more lenient again, in which case loot boxes themselves would very likely be off the hook entirely again.

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Is this that Dutch law from last week? If so, those were deemed illegal because the gambled upon goods were able to be sold for cash. I know we'd all love to see gamble crates go away, but this doesn't apply here.

Why? EA already made adjustments to Battlefront II that is (per the article) acceptable to the government and no longer an issue.

Nope, the Netherlands Gaming Authority action and this latest move by Belgium's Gaming Commission are two different decisions. Because there's no cash-out function for EA's loot boxes, they're not running afoul of the Netherlands' latest regulatory crackdown (which isn't to say that regulation won't continue to develop over time -- it may, or may not depending on political winds and such).

 

That being said, the reference to the changes BF II made that placated the Belgian report (which doesn't appear to specify the cash-out criteria) seems like its talking about the decision to completely remove paid loot boxes. As they have, after that initial change, decided to reintroduce the paid cosmetic loot boxes, that might not be the end of the story. (Since EA's already lobbying / negotiating with the Gaming Commission over FIFA 18, I suspect it will get resolved one way or the other through that process.)

Edited by DarthDymond
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Why? EA already made adjustments to Battlefront II that is (per the article) acceptable to the government and no longer an issue.

 

Almost every other EA game has loot boxes just like Battlefront II pre fix, if not far worse. I still have no idea why the more mediocre loot box game got ragged on so hard yet Need for speed got a pass when their far worse.

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Yep... it's the "cash-out" to real money pathway that crossed the line... not random boxes per se.

 

As with many things in life.. it's not the method, it's the outcome that gets the scrutiny.

 

Also.. for all of you claiming Disney will hate this...yada yada... note specifically in the quoted article.. that Battlefront II made adjustments shortly after released and the government is satisfied with said adjustments and Battlefront II is fine here. And for those of you with your jimmies in a bunch about loot boxes here..... clearly.... loot boxes are not anathema under this ruling, just certain characteristics in how they are handled economically.. and so you will get no relieve from loot boxes in SWTOR.

 

This ruling does remove a good amount of the ambiguity with respect to random loot boxes, and that is a good thing.. as it makes it more clear for companies what is and what is not acceptable. This effectively puts some clear limits on games that essentially fund completely through non-subscription monetization methods.

 

All of this ^^

 

I do think Disney were smart to step in before SW BF2 was launched and make EA suspend the loot boxes before launch. They dodge more bad press by doing that.

 

Ive been following this topic since last year and there seems to be a lot of soul searching going on in the industry around the use of any type of loot box. Some developers have said new games they have in the works won’t have them anymore. But games with them already in are likely to retain some form of loot boxes as it costs a lot of money to redo systems based on revenue or gearing, etc.

 

It is a really shame that Disney seems to have no interest in swtor. Maybe it’s because it’s not canon and maybe it’s because it was released before they purchased the IP. I get the feeling they don’t really care if the game fails or not.

The only thing they might do is use it as extra leverage against EA to remove them from their agreement to exclusively develope SW games.

 

Even though Disney are rumoured to be hunting for another company to make some SW games, EA hasn’t completely messed up. They have SW galaxy of Hero’s mobile game, that by all accounts is a massive cash cow and success. And I believe EA have announced another SW mobile game is in development. Wether PC or console gamers agree or like it, there is massive amounts of money to be made in the mobile app market. It makes perfect business sense for EA to follow that path and probably still comply with Disney’s requirements.

 

I would love nothing more than Disney to step in and make EA do something to reinvigorate this game an make it the success it deserves or to make a swtor2, etc. I just don’t think Disney care about non canon SW and it will never happen if EA are allowed to decide by themselves.

Unless Disney swap focus on SW to before original movies and look back before the prequels and make movies, IMO, you can pretty much guarantee all future games will be based on the current time line. Disney hasn’t even made the books “Darth Plagus” or “Darth Bane” canon.

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Looks like EA will be shutting off Belgium.

 

Why? EA already made adjustments to Battlefront II that is (per the article) acceptable to the government and no longer an issue.

 

Only for FIFA. Either that or they will have to make big changes to how that game works within their revenue stream

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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