Jump to content

Current State of PVP


Valzanik

Recommended Posts

SOOO

 

Little tid bit from what i have seen in pvp thus far and what i have experienced after "end Game" PVPing with the best players to ever pvp in this game over the 5 years:

 

PVP is in a good Spot, pleasantly surprised Good job, for the most part.

 

I have been playing this game since launch and i only PVP (with the occasional fleet trolling and /say **** talking in pvp, but who doesn't) most of which has been "end game" PVP. Everything thing from the good ol 8v8 with the longest *********** pre-season any MMO has every seen to 4s to dueling tournaments to regs, seen it all.

 

With that being said i have seen what ultimate contributes to the poor pvp, specifically ranked PVP( solo's and team) experience so "insert whatever word you want for FOTM AS **** AKA boring and ****".

 

Make small incremental changes when it comes to balancing patches after launch. You have a very real history of being so overly "nerf/buff" Happy that the continued "bad" trends in pvp repeat themselves. THEN you just wait untilt he next expansion to try and fix it and it happens again.(i.e nerf of Mercs & OPs after original launch, the way to long era of smash monkies and i was one, and then the aids madness era, and the skank tank 3 PT era... etc) I also want to point out by no means is this post to Bash bioware by anymeans i love this game and simply want to see it do well and help grow the PVP community so it is more diverse/enjoyable for all.

 

Basically making a spec/class so optimal or OP that its best to run 2-3 of them and only way to counter them is to run the exact same comp of the exact same spec/class, it just isn't a formula for success fella's. It obviously isn't a PVP success formula.For example, the 3-4 scound/Op heals in 8v8 ranked (thank you sifu #trumoo, iwas apart of that team as and winning was still painful) , which maybe a handful of people here will understand or making the ideal comp 3 AP Pt's, 2 smash mara's, 3 Madness etc..

 

With that being said i think classes are for the most part pretty balanced in PVP at the moment, obviously some need MINOR tweaks but not bad.

 

However this leads me to main point of what you have done with merc. By all means, im all in for mercs being viable even a little OP tbh, they deserve it HAHA But the defensive they have, with the burst, and the off heals, oh and their ranged? Not a good formula. Tone down the defensive's slightly so having 2 mercs may be top tier comp but it doesn't lead to the previous trends that have diminished pvp in this game in the past. Seeing damn near the same thing every match and not having much or anything to do about it, is discouraging.

 

I am no where near as "hardcore" as i was previously with this game but i enjoy it and i enjoy pvping. Just trying to add some feedback to help the pvp community as a whole. Maybe im way off, doubt it, but if so feel free to attempt to troll as long as you come to Harb and whisper me so i can continually tunnel/global you all wz's/pvp. Making u hate life for ***** and giggles (been known to run with a really annoying 4 man premade to piss ppl off ) ;)

 

One last thing. Guard, is broken in PVP lol Make it 25-35% instead of 50 and so many more classes will be viable but that rants for another time.

 

Thats all wanted to add some of my feedback and would appreciate if people bring up other issues they have seen and realistic suggestions to help PVP overall.

 

#MakeGudaMaraRep

Edited by Valzanik
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1: Guard is not "broken" , you simply use "skill" to separate the one guarding from the one being guarded

2: Merc is surprisingly NOT dominating ranked arenas, somehow that makes me question if you got the one thing required in statement 1, "skill". Stop whining, learn how to play and adapt accordingly. Seen lots of players completely circumvent the merc cooldowns and take the merc player apart in short order.

 

I have seen even more players act like you do here, learn nothing and completely ignore the new mechanics and thus playing into the mercs new strenght.

 

But hey, who cares right? Life is sooooo much more interesting when you can just act like a true child of the 90´s and just whine about everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well PVP was always fine in the game, it had its up and downs, but the further we go the more abilities the classes gain, which makes it always "different". Whats funny to me is that right now you have:

 

1. Abilities to slow enemies and you have many speed increase utilities

2. Several types of stuns and a lot of utilities to unstun, use defensive's while stunned or take less dmg while stunned and ofc stun immunity abilities

3. You have different types of roots and utilities to move even it rooted

4. There are many types of self heals for different classes

5. Reflect added to most classes of total or extra damage

 

So yes, PVP has indeed developed and offers a big variety of abilities but after all those years and with 100% PVP achievements, im fine to stick to ranked just for the CXP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1: Guard is not "broken" , you simply use "skill" to separate the one guarding from the one being guarded

2: Merc is surprisingly NOT dominating ranked arenas, somehow that makes me question if you got the one thing required in statement 1, "skill". Stop whining, learn how to play and adapt accordingly. Seen lots of players completely circumvent the merc cooldowns and take the merc player apart in short order.

 

I have seen even more players act like you do here, learn nothing and completely ignore the new mechanics and thus playing into the mercs new strenght.

 

But hey, who cares right? Life is sooooo much more interesting when you can just act like a true child of the 90´s and just whine about everything.

 

This. So much this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1: Guard is not "broken" , you simply use "skill" to separate the one guarding from the one being guarded

2: Merc is surprisingly NOT dominating ranked arenas, somehow that makes me question if you got the one thing required in statement 1, "skill". Stop whining, learn how to play and adapt accordingly. Seen lots of players completely circumvent the merc cooldowns and take the merc player apart in short order.

 

I have seen even more players act like you do here, learn nothing and completely ignore the new mechanics and thus playing into the mercs new strenght.

 

But hey, who cares right? Life is sooooo much more interesting when you can just act like a true child of the 90´s and just whine about everything.

 

 

I 100% agree with you. I love the state Mercs are in. Just like every. single. year. The good players will beat you with any class. Merc at least now has a much needed survivability, its alot like sorcs god bubble. But I think its pretty balanced. I have no problem taking down fellow mercs when I pay attention to what they are casting. Nor do equally skilled players have a problem shutting down my burst if payed attention to. Ranked 4s with mercs feel right to me. Finally I can bring a class in, and use the Electronet to shut down enemy DcD's, like god bubble. For to long merc has been missing this tiny survivability boost, and I think BW nailed it this time. SWTOR PvP has ALWAYS been about skill, always. Sure some classes under perform but 9 times outta 10 the people whining about this or that don't have the skill needed to adapt to the changes in a class, or perform with it, or even know what rotations to use. One thing I do enjoy about BW is that they don't constantly update classes based off of people whining because they are bad with the class, which is exactly what Blizzard has done with it's changes.

 

TLDR - PvP is not broken, players are. Classes are performing wonderfully atm. I have had more fun in PvP in 5.0 in many years. L2P your class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am no where near as "hardcore" as i was previously with this game but i enjoy it and i enjoy pvping. Just trying to add some feedback to help the pvp community as a whole. Maybe im way off, doubt it, but if so feel free to attempt to troll as long as you come to Harb and whisper me so i can continually tunnel/global you all wz's/pvp. Making u hate life for ***** and giggles (been known to run with a really annoying 4 man premade to piss ppl off ) ;)

Man, it works. I've been on the receiving end more than once. You had me pretty ticked off at one point haha. :mad:

 

I agree with your overall assessment. Balance seems pretty reasonable, aside from Mercs now having insane DCDs...but I'm not even mad about that. Let 'em be OP for a bit, I say.

 

I've been playing Carnage, Merc heals, and Vengeance. Balance seems fairly reasonable for unranked. Although Merc heals absolutely cannot put out the same HPS numbers as Sorcs, but I figure the insane Merc DCDs make up for that a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I think its pretty balanced. I have no problem taking down fellow mercs when I pay attention to what they are casting. Nor do equally skilled players have a problem shutting down my burst if payed attention to...

 

...For to long merc has been missing this tiny survivability boost, and I think BW nailed it this time.

Hah, "tiny survivability boost". You guys have literally everything right now. Not that I am complaining too hard, I play sniper, which I believe is second in terms of individual class strength to mercs (albeit requiring more skill to reach equal strength).

 

The problem with mercs, however, is the same one with operatives this patch - they stack too well in a group. A single sniper can, for example, take on a single operative or a single merc, the latter requiring on point kiting / LOS. However, 3-4 operatives are unkillable due to the full heal on probe, and 3-4 mercs (of equal skill with other team) will outburst AND outsurvive any other team. Having two mercs or two operatives already stacks up the odds for your group to a point other stacked classes cannot match up.

 

Note that I am NOT calling a nerf on operatives because I don't know how to fix them - without the cancerous full heal on probe after countermeasures utility, operatives don't bring much to the table for their group compared to other classes.

 

As for mercs, I'll refer to Asana who said that the self-heal on DCD's should be toned down. Alternately, I'll say that their DPS can be brought more in line with the other two burst DPS classes - except it should still be higher than MM since snipers have that sweet CC immunity through most of a game.

 

TLDR - PvP is not broken, players are. Classes are performing wonderfully atm. I have had more fun in PvP in 5.0 in many years. L2P your class.
Sorc DPS and Jugg DPS are both in a very sad state right now. Sintank and deception procs are broken and give double yield. Mercs are a bit overtuned, and operatives should be made viable in a way that does not stack so hard. PT DPS is also kind of bad - they have about equal burst with mercs with none of the survivability, and is just a bad class choice to play.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hah, "tiny survivability boost". You guys have literally everything right now. Not that I am complaining too hard, I play sniper, which I believe is second in terms of individual class strength to mercs (albeit requiring more skill to reach equal strength).

 

The problem with mercs, however, is the same one with operatives this patch - they stack too well in a group. A single sniper can, for example, take on a single operative or a single merc, the latter requiring on point kiting / LOS. However, 3-4 operatives are unkillable due to the full heal on probe, and 3-4 mercs (of equal skill with other team) will outburst AND outsurvive any other team. Having two mercs or two operatives already stacks up the odds for your group to a point other stacked classes cannot match up.

 

Note that I am NOT calling a nerf on operatives because I don't know how to fix them - without the cancerous full heal on probe after countermeasures utility, operatives don't bring much to the table for their group compared to other classes.

 

As for mercs, I'll refer to Asana who said that the self-heal on DCD's should be toned down. Alternately, I'll say that their DPS can be brought more in line with the other two burst DPS classes - except it should still be higher than MM since snipers have that sweet CC immunity through most of a game.

 

Sorc DPS and Jugg DPS are both in a very sad state right now. Sintank and deception procs are broken and give double yield. Mercs are a bit overtuned, and operatives should be made viable in a way that does not stack so hard. PT DPS is also kind of bad - they have about equal burst with mercs with none of the survivability, and is just a bad class choice to play.

 

So...now you are wanting to balance classes around stacked scenarios?

 

I'd love to see you try and do that rationally and not have your head explode with also making the classes actually contribute in a non stacked scenario.

 

You're effectively asking them to consider balancing X class with the assumption that they should be performing at 1/2 or 1/4 that due to a potential stacked scenario, and yet ...as in the other posts the new DCDs are actually pretty easy to circumvent .....

 

since you play sniper lets say that your CC immunity..your roll...your damage...your burst should your sheilds should all be balanced around the assumption that there are 2 or 4 of you that will focus something.

 

Hah..

 

merc dcds too stronk.......

 

well don't hit them with they have their dcds up and they wont heal...

 

merc dcds too stronk!!! Nurf!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...now you are wanting to balance classes around stacked scenarios?

 

I'd love to see you try and do that rationally and not have your head explode with also making the classes actually contribute in a non stacked scenario.

Which is why I am not recommending a specific, drastic nerf or boost myself. The only thing I see is that arsenal theoretical damage output should be a bit lower if devs want to be consistent, since it has close to the total output of a sustained DPS while delivering the best single target burst for ranged.

 

You're effectively asking them to consider balancing X class with the assumption that they should be performing at 1/2 or 1/4 that due to a potential stacked scenario, and yet ...as in the other posts the new DCDs are actually pretty easy to circumvent .....
The individual merc's DCD's are easy to circumvent if you can play the game. Against multiple mercs, with cross-offhealing, and multiple nets, the group becomes an indestructible wrecking ball. Only operatives have something similar with the H2F utility every 45s - yet they don't have that much damage output.

 

since you play sniper lets say that your CC immunity..your roll...your damage...your burst should your sheilds should all be balanced around the assumption that there are 2 or 4 of you that will focus something.

 

Hah..

Stacking snipers, like stacking marauders or sins, is stronger than any combination of those - but it still isn't as ridiculous as mercs. You are also less likely to see a stack of these guys than mercs.

 

merc dcds too stronk.......

 

well don't hit them with they have their dcds up and they wont heal...

 

merc dcds too stronk!!! Nurf!!

If you read what I've written, that is not too big a problem with a single merc, and I advise doing exactly that against one. Although you are factually wrong, if you're not hitting them they can run away and heal up themselves.

 

edit: what I am saying is, counterable != balanced. A sniper can 1v1 a single merc, but it's a very steep challenge, and one would rather have a merc on their team than a sniper. Any other class, with people of equal skill, will get obliterated by the merc. And you can only really delay a merc DPS through CC, but doing so against multiple is unfeasible, whereas you can shut down multiple MM dps by LOS-dancing, multiple sins / maras by knockbacks, etc..

 

I mean, you have active self-heals, movement buff with immunity to physics, a mobile channel, enraged defense with DR, reflect with self-heals, ability to kill off sniper / sin / sorc escapes, and best ranged burst in game. Do you seriously not think that all combined IS at least a bit over the top?

 

edit2: forgot AOE circular knockback, and heal to 70%.

 

If you're getting rekt on this while you aren't in a group composition disadvantage, you should literally L2P.

Edited by Metthew
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hah..

 

merc dcds too stronk.......

 

well don't hit them with they have their dcds up and they wont heal...

 

merc dcds too stronk!!! Nurf!!

You're talking about the one high profile DCD that Mercs got and everybody knows about. Yeah, there was certainly an initial learning curve in which people had to learn what that ability animation looked like and train themselves to wait it out or use AOE.

 

But there are a few other extremely powerful DCDs (via new utility points) that it doesn't appear you mentioned, for which there is no counter - they just are what they are. If you play Merc, you would know about those, so I'm not going to spell it out when I don't need to. If you are being honest and have no ulterior motives, I think you would be hard pressed to not admit that Arsenal Merc (a ranged dps with great burst and good sustained damage output), is now just as tanky if not more so than Vengeance. Is that OP? I would say so.

Edited by teclado
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hah, "tiny survivability boost". You guys have literally everything right now. Not that I am complaining too hard, I play sniper, which I believe is second in terms of individual class strength to mercs (albeit requiring more skill to reach equal strength).

 

The problem with mercs, however, is the same one with operatives this patch - they stack too well in a group. A single sniper can, for example, take on a single operative or a single merc, the latter requiring on point kiting / LOS. However, 3-4 operatives are unkillable due to the full heal on probe, and 3-4 mercs (of equal skill with other team) will outburst AND outsurvive any other team. Having two mercs or two operatives already stacks up the odds for your group to a point other stacked classes cannot match up.

 

Note that I am NOT calling a nerf on operatives because I don't know how to fix them - without the cancerous full heal on probe after countermeasures utility, operatives don't bring much to the table for their group compared to other classes.

 

As for mercs, I'll refer to Asana who said that the self-heal on DCD's should be toned down. Alternately, I'll say that their DPS can be brought more in line with the other two burst DPS classes - except it should still be higher than MM since snipers have that sweet CC immunity through most of a game.

 

Sorc DPS and Jugg DPS are both in a very sad state right now. Sintank and deception procs are broken and give double yield. Mercs are a bit overtuned, and operatives should be made viable in a way that does not stack so hard. PT DPS is also kind of bad - they have about equal burst with mercs with none of the survivability, and is just a bad class choice to play.

 

I still don't understand you arguments. Snipers heal in cover, also have evasion, and unable to be CC'd, interrupted, while the cover shield is there. They have reduced damage with their massive cover sheild, they have a roll that can not be attacked during and when used correctly cancels out tracer missles or whatever is cast at them

 

Sorcs have a god bubble, that puts them to full health, then they can force speed away and or phase walk while healing and rooting you.

 

Juggs have Enraged Defense which heal them to full, also have a guard to jump back to healer, and a REFLECT

 

Sins have a quit combat all together and cleanse everything button, then run away and heal out when popped out of stealth

 

Operatives? Don't get me started on what operatives have that they can roll, knockback, CC, heal.

 

What do mercs have before 5.0? Rocket out, a measly 15 meter jump back? Thats it. One insta self heal that has a 15 sec cool down and is garbage, and a insta heal thats only good for powering up their 10 stacks to get alacrity boost. We had a shield that did nothing, and a net that cancelled all others DcD's but you couldn't survive long enough when focused to even use it without blowing every DCD you had. What do we have now? The same as every other class, a way to survive when focused. The shield does heal you to full health when ATTACKED. If you see a merc pop his shield, CC his *** until it comes off cooldown. We have a new Reflect shield which is CLEARLY obvious, if you see it, don't attack. It's not like A juggs reflect where you have to pay attention to the actual Buffs to see. If you see a merc get low, put an electronet on his *** and cancel out all his abiilities. Just because you don't know how to play against mercs doesn't mean they need to be nerfed to hell. Its very simple. If you see a blue shield, CC him, or kite him then attack when he's done. If he has a yellow shield don't attack since its a reflect. Its *********** simple. Pay attention to what your opponents are using, look at their Buffs. All you are doing is just proving that you need to learn to play. Mercs finally can stack up with the rest of the classes. Merc was neglected for so long. Granted we still have to stand still to shoot our tracer missles if your not specced into it. If you are specced into it, its a 2 minute cooldown to use two tracer missiles instantly. If not, you stand in one spot like a sniper and cast, yet we can be knocked back, and jumped too during this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still don't understand you arguments. Snipers heal in cover, also have evasion, and unable to be CC'd, interrupted, while the cover shield is there. They have reduced damage with their massive cover sheild, they have a roll that can not be attacked during and when used correctly cancels out tracer missles or whatever is cast at them
So you need to catch em out of cover. I'm not going to spell it out for you.

 

Also, what makes sniper hard is that every single defensive sniper has is reactive and has to be used by a player who is actively watching everything going on around them. Sniper survivability declines VERY harshly if you use one DCD wrong. Contrast with merc who can keep attacking while any of its DCD's are on, and can always kite / LOS and self-heal much better than sniper.

 

Sorcs have a god bubble, that puts them to full health, then they can force speed away and or phase walk while healing and rooting you.
The bubble is no longer a H2F, it's been nerfed significantly to the point that DPS sorc is not so viable for ranked. Phase Walk is annoying for dealing with their healers, yes, but we are talking about DPS (or merc healers still do need a boost). Also, sorcs don't get to attack while their bubble is up.

 

Juggs have Enraged Defense which heal them to full, also have a guard to jump back to healer, and a REFLECT
And it's still not enough. They are literally top of kill order right now.

 

Sins have a quit combat all together and cleanse everything button, then run away and heal out when popped out of stealth
A lot of things go through shroud, and you can reveal sins who exit combat through smart AOE placement. If you cannot, you have a numerical advantage while they are gone anyways. Also, sin defensives are very, very meh.

 

Operatives? Don't get me started on what operatives have that they can roll, knockback, CC, heal.
Counting CC's as something extra is just sad man.

 

What do mercs have before 5.0? Rocket out, a measly 15 meter jump back? Thats it. One insta self heal that has a 15 sec cool down and is garbage, and a insta heal thats only good for powering up their 10 stacks to get alacrity boost. We had a shield that did nothing, and a net that cancelled all others DcD's but you couldn't survive long enough when focused to even use it without blowing every DCD you had. What do we have now? The same as every other class, a way to survive when focused. The shield does heal you to full health when ATTACKED. If you see a merc pop his shield, CC his *** until it comes off cooldown. We have a new Reflect shield which is CLEARLY obvious, if you see it, don't attack. It's not like A juggs reflect where you have to pay attention to the actual Buffs to see. If you see a merc get low, put an electronet on his *** and cancel out all his abiilities.
If you don't see how having all that means you can never really shut down a merc DPS, then I hope you never show up in one of the ranked matches I am in.

 

For reference, hard focusing any other class sharply nullifies their DPS. This includes sniper which must actively root, roll, diversion etc., and cannot use any major attacks on the move.

 

Just because you don't know how to play against mercs doesn't mean they need to be nerfed to hell. Its very simple. If you see a blue shield, CC him, or kite him then attack when he's done. If he has a yellow shield don't attack since its a reflect. Its *********** simple.
It's amazing, except when you have more than one merc you cannot shut them down like that.

 

Pay attention to what your opponents are using, look at their Buffs. All you are doing is just proving that you need to learn to play.
You better be one of the 1.7k+ rated Harbinger snipers, or at the very least be a tier 1 merc in a competitive PVP server if you are talking like that.

 

Mercs finally can stack up with the rest of the classes. Merc was neglected for so long. Granted we still have to stand still to shoot our tracer missles if your not specced into it. If you are specced into it, its a 2 minute cooldown to use two tracer missiles instantly. If not, you stand in one spot like a sniper and cast, yet we can be knocked back, and jumped too during this.
Mercs do more than stack up with the rest of the classes. I know that you guys had it rough for some while (I mean, it was still the top dueling class in 4.x), but you simply have too many damn tools right now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...