You're funny. You suggest that they unintentionally allowed for encryptions to be earned at a faster pace for 3 1/2 years. I wonder, what do you suggest made them allow conquest to be as alt friendly as it was before 5.9 if it was not their intent.

There was a completely different team in place when conquest was released initially, and i doubt the new team, despite finding issues with the old system, wanted to rush out small changes instead of building to a complete overhaul.

Edited August 15, 2018 by olagatonjedi

Am I missing something?

 

There seem to be some missing posts since I last looked at this thread.

 

I was going to consolidate the additional suggestions from my post.

Either I'm having a brain fart, which is possible, or they're missing.

 

 

1. Remove "once per day per legacy" restriction

2. Remove the restrictions for ops as there are already restrictions on the number of ops allowed per toon per week.

3. There was a third, but I don't remember what it was.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Darevsool

We know, that’s why people are leaving the game

What significant players have left the game recently?

 

And yes, lets keep this conversation civil. We all have a right to express our point of view and that doesnt make someone a troll.

Edited August 15, 2018 by olagatonjedi

What significant players have left the game recently?

 

And yes, lets keep this conversation civil. We all have a right to express our point of view and that doesnt make someone a troll.

 

Isn't every player significant?

As paying subscribers?

As CM paying F2P members

Even as completely free never spend a dime players....

 

Every player is significant.

Only you control your emotions.

 

Don't sell yourself short. You say some pretty funny stuff.

In your opinion?

 

So how do you define a significant player?

To a very large extent, I place blame for this situation / debacle squarely on the shoulders of BW.

 

A great deal of the frustration stems from the unequivocal fact that the Conquest changes were: a) not previewed in advance to allow feedback; and, more importantly, b) the goals were never outlined clearly. Did they consider the unintended consequences (i.e., fewer alts means less WZ and FP pops)?

 

Their silence on this topic is deafening. I think that part of the reason they remain silent is twofold: 1) they put a lot of work into the changes and have other stuff to do now; and 2) if they did announce what the goals were I'm pretty sure the empirical evidence would suggest they did not achieve such goals.

 

To some extent the disagreement here is philosophical. I understand the point the person who is posting so much here is trying to make. I just happen to disagree. Moreover, I believe there is a 'unit of analysis' problem. I believe one poster here is cherry picking and/ or conflating data from pre-5.8 and applying it to the current situation. The reason I don't engage him is because he did the same thing when arguing that SWTOR's content release was comparable to that of WoW, a game he acknowledged he never played. The final straw for me was when he was unable to distinguish between raid vs. raid boss.

 

BW could put all this to rest by explaining the changes. It will inevitably make some happy and some unhappy. There is precedent, however, for them doing so. Bolster in PvP has been a subject of pretty intense debate on this forum, but it actually did lessen / abate when Keith came out and definitively stated that they did not think Bolster should be BiS and they wanted some element of progression / incentive.

 

They should do something similar here.

 

Dasty

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jdast

The goal of these changes is that if you complete the bigger value one-time Objectives on a given character, you have a lot more ability to earn points via repeatable Objectives. Not only are there more Objectives to work towards, they are worth more points as well. One of our goals is to encourage that you play multiple types of content and so that will always remain the most optimal path to Conquest points. However, these changes will allow a player to more easily get their Conquest points even if they just play one type of content on repeat.

This initial post seems to sum up the intentions of BW regarding conquest. According to the wording they use, i interpret them as seeing 5.8 as THE BASELINE for conquest, not any specific parts of the old system. Think of it as they invented the conquest system in the first place, as it IS a new system, and no part of the old system was developed by the current regime.

 

If people continue to view conquest as simply feature changes from the old system, instead of a completely new entity, they may continue to have issues and not fully understand the goals of the new system as presented by BW themselves.

I understand the point the person who is posting so much here is trying to make. I just happen to disagree. Moreover, I believe there is a 'unit of analysis' problem. I believe one poster here is cherry picking and/ or conflating data from pre-5.8 and applying it to the current situation.

 

 

Dasty

 

I just cringe that disagreement in this thread has seen people reported and posts removed. But I suppose it doesn't surprise me that the defense of Bioware and their decisions is being protected so vehemently, even though the "underdog" in this scenario chose the role for himself. I can't imagine that anyone is forcing a response to every single post in this thread, directed at specific people or not, but I do know that these actions are being protected for some reason as whole swaths of this conversation have disappeared. Therefore, I will add my two cents here (for as long as it remains before being removed) and then quit responding to this thread, and perhaps these forums.

 

The argument has been made by the lone soldier in this conversation that the overwhelming feedback from everyone on the forums is insignificant because he deems the population of the forums such a minority as to not represent anything. Being the one forum poster on the other side of that nearly unanimous feedback puts his feedback in an even more insignificant category, if we were to go by his own judgement. That is the irony I feel when I read certain posts. That plus an utter lack of really strong points being made to repeated arguments that would convince me there was any merit to them (just my opinion) convinces me that this particular discussion is circular, and no longer worth having. Any valid points are being drown in a sea of needless responses and repeated diatribes that only make me wonder why someone so pleased with the new system isn't just playing the game rather than spending the entire day on the forums hitting the "Quote" button.

 

Honestly though, it does not matter in the long run. What does matter is that enough people are happy playing the game to keep the lights on. I think in the area of conquest, people that I have encountered both in game and nearly unanimously on these forums say: No. It's now up to Bioware to do something about that to retain players, I just don't think that they will. If they did, perhaps some of us would return to playing the game and paying a subscription... but that ball is in their court and (at least for me), the days of paying for and supporting this game are very nearly over.

 

I think everyone has a right to feel how they feel about it. I'm glad he is so happy with the results of the new conquest. I just hope his subscription money keeps the lights on when others who are very unhappy with Conquest (and it was the only reason they were still playing the game) walk away.

 

But I am done posting on the subject because it will make no difference. The litigator has encouraged me to quit participating in these forums, just as the changes to Conquest have encouraged me to quit participating in playing SWTOR. Good luck to those who choose to fight this battle going forward.

 

I do hope they make the changes that the majority of the community want. I think there is a happy medium between an alt free-for-all and discouraging people from playing the game because if they want to do conquest, there is a definite limit to what you can even do in a single day. There should never be nothing left for someone to do in an MMO, no matter how long or how much you want to play it. You should be able to spend money creating character after character and repeating the activities you enjoy ad nauseam. When they changed conquest from being a solid reason for doing that here, many found no other reason to keep playing. And here we are.

 

.

Edited August 16, 2018 by PennyAnn

I was actually busy at work today so I didn't have time to post as much as I have been this week when I've been less busy.

When it is slower at work, I pay more attention to the forum, and this thread.

 

Honestly I think I've had my fill of Bioware on this matter, the final nail in the coffin wasn't their silence on conquest changes that we've been talking about again, but rather the deletion of posts that were meant to be useful / meaningful collaboration of ideas that could improve the current system.

 

They didn't delete any of the bickering (mine included).

 

So with 66 days left on account number 2 I'm canceling for the 3rd time.

 

Maybe I'll resub with 6.0. Depends on what's going on in and out of the game.

 

I'll be off most of this weekend anyway on a little mini vacation.

 

Just have to check on cancelling account #1 now.

/sigh 166 days left.

 

I am canceling because of the current status of conquest and there has been NO communication from the devs, at all, about it post 5.9. (beyond the fixing of a bug) I was hoping there would be additional changes that would make it more in line with what was standard pre 5.8. the ability to hit conquest on multiple toon (meaning 10+ a week) w/o using any bugs.

Currently that isn't the case.

I've met the other goals in game that I had.

There is now no other reason for me to continue to pay money to play this game.

 

 

 

Forum sign up number 2611

(that's how long I've had this, my main account, registered for the forums)

Edited August 16, 2018 by Darev

More missing pages. This book needs some glue. I hope none of you really do quit because of it. Edited August 17, 2018 by kodrac

To a very large extent, I place blame for this situation / debacle squarely on the shoulders of BW.

 

A great deal of the frustration stems from the unequivocal fact that the Conquest changes were: a) not previewed in advance to allow feedback; and, more importantly, b) the goals were never outlined clearly. Did they consider the unintended consequences (i.e., fewer alts means less WZ and FP pops)?

 

Their silence on this topic is deafening. I think that part of the reason they remain silent is twofold: 1) they put a lot of work into the changes and have other stuff to do now; and 2) if they did announce what the goals were I'm pretty sure the empirical evidence would suggest they did not achieve such goals.

 

To some extent the disagreement here is philosophical. I understand the point the person who is posting so much here is trying to make. I just happen to disagree. Moreover, I believe there is a 'unit of analysis' problem. I believe one poster here is cherry picking and/ or conflating data from pre-5.8 and applying it to the current situation. The reason I don't engage him is because he did the same thing when arguing that SWTOR's content release was comparable to that of WoW, a game he acknowledged he never played. The final straw for me was when he was unable to distinguish between raid vs. raid boss.

 

BW could put all this to rest by explaining the changes. It will inevitably make some happy and some unhappy. There is precedent, however, for them doing so. Bolster in PvP has been a subject of pretty intense debate on this forum, but it actually did lessen / abate when Keith came out and definitively stated that they did not think Bolster should be BiS and they wanted some element of progression / incentive.

 

They should do something similar here.

 

Dasty

 

I've been sitting in queue for 20 minutes, as a tank, waiting for Master Mode Flashpoints to pop, for the FPs that are "featured" this week. At 7:30 CST, prime time for Star Forge play time.

 

The design flaws in conquest are a case study in unintended consequences and poor design.

More missing pages. This book needs some glue. I hope none of you really do quit because of it.

 

The "missing pages" was exactly the final straw for me.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Darev

This initial post seems to sum up the intentions of BW regarding conquest. According to the wording they use, i interpret them as seeing 5.8 as THE BASELINE for conquest, not any specific parts of the old system. Think of it as they invented the conquest system in the first place, as it IS a new system, and no part of the old system was developed by the current regime.

 

If people continue to view conquest as simply feature changes from the old system, instead of a completely new entity, they may continue to have issues and not fully understand the goals of the new system as presented by BW themselves.

 

So your position, and you are implying Bioware's, is to take away things people have earned by playing the game for years. Many people still playing the game earned their alts by playing them and should get a benefit from them in whatever content is available. What next, take away companions that people have leveled to 50 influence (after all that gives them an advantage in crafting over someone who doesn't have influence 50 companions). Maybe take away Strongholds, after all, not everyone has a fully unlocked stronghold. Those that are getting a 150% bonus from having strongholds have an advantage over people who don't. Or maybe take away 248 gear in PVP after all that gives them an advantage over people in starter gear. Maybe they should take away Shae and Nico that overperform compared to the general companions, that can't be fair in Rampages and heroics, can it? Maybe they should make all guilds exactly the same size so the bigger guilds don't have and advantage.

 

Your idea of balance is really just taking away what people have earned in favor of those who have not.

The "missing pages" was exactly the final straw for me.

I don't blame you...it's aggravating. Good feedback is being lost by spam posts.

I've been sitting in queue for 20 minutes, as a tank, waiting for Master Mode Flashpoints to pop, for the FPs that are "featured" this week. At 7:30 CST, prime time for Star Forge play time.

 

The design flaws in conquest are a case study in unintended consequences and poor design.

Some of the fps this week are some of the harder ones, from feedback given. People tend to choose the path of least resistance towards their online goals, which hopefully shows that some FP rewards need to be re-evaluated based on participation and difficulty, but not necessarily anything related to conquest.

So your position, and you are implying Bioware's, is to take away things people have earned by playing the game for years. Many people still playing the game earned their alts by playing them and should get a benefit from them in whatever content is available. What next, take away companions that people have leveled to 50 influence (after all that gives them an advantage in crafting over someone who doesn't have influence 50 companions). Maybe take away Strongholds, after all, not everyone has a fully unlocked stronghold. Those that are getting a 150% bonus from having strongholds have an advantage over people who don't. Or maybe take away 248 gear in PVP after all that gives them an advantage over people in starter gear. Maybe they should take away Shae and Nico that overperform compared to the general companions, that can't be fair in Rampages and heroics, can it? Maybe they should make all guilds exactly the same size so the bigger guilds don't have and advantage.

 

Your idea of balance is really just taking away what people have earned in favor of those who have not.

Please clarify what has been taken away from long-time playwrs, such as myself? Last I checked, i can play any of my 30 alts. Im not quite understanding your post.

 

As for your comments on pvp gear vs stronghold, etc, those are at least relatively balanced, and both have a hard cap. In PvP, everyone will have at least 242 bolster, and will never have to go against someone with more than 248 gear (until gear levels change, that is). In addition, nobody will ever have to go against more than 4 or 8 opponents at a time (cant bring your alts to help you in pvp, so why should you in guild pvp?). As for strongholds, nobody can get more than 150% bonus, and even new players can start off at approx 50-70% (iirc) by investing a small amount in the starter strongholds of DK and Coru. Again, relatively balanced. The same cannot be said for someone with 0 alts vs a person with 50 alts and no restrictions on conquest. Thats an unfair battle to expect anyone to go against.

And i believe BW has confirmed participation is increased since 5.8 came out.

 

Without knowing what BW considers participating that is a meaningless statement.

 

The only real, useful fact would be how many characters are meeting their personal conquest goal, not just earning conquest points.

 

I have five crafters who are not in a guild, do not do conquest, have never met their personal conquest goals, but get conquest points just from crafting. They are not participating, but I suspect BW is counting them in their numbers as doing conquest.

It's not a personal attack. No one attacked you personally. No one has called you a troll. They haven't even attacked your opinions. They've commented on your tactics. You hide behind semantics and the report button. You claim any criticism as personal attacks and the mods oblige. Criticism is not a personal attack. If you don't like being called a troll, which again no one has, don't use troll tactics. Stating your opinion is fine but you've gone well past that. The last 11 (should be 13) pages is you spamming the thread repeating yourself to drown out discussion, changing the subject in an attempt to misdirect and baiting others into pointless arguments. All troll tactics. I see right through it.

 

Spam is against forum rules, suprised more ppl do not report obvious spammers.

Without knowing what BW considers participating that is a meaningless statement.

 

The only real, useful fact would be how many characters are meeting their personal conquest goal, not just earning conquest points.

 

I have five crafters who are not in a guild, do not do conquest, have never met their personal conquest goals, but get conquest points just from crafting. They are not participating, but I suspect BW is counting them in their numbers as doing conquest.

Since we arent the ones responsible for gauging success of conquest and its participation, it doesnt truly matter what criteria they use. If they are satisfied with the metrics they feel are most important to their model, then they will take feedback with a limited mind.

 

If Kraft suddenly received a few messages saying their mac n cheese was horrible, they would certainly look into it, with the knowledge that they have made billions off of their current recipe. I wouldnt expect a recipe change. I would anticipate them taking it into consideration for a future product - so they meet the needs expressed by a portion of their consumer base.

Spam is against forum rules, suprised more ppl do not report obvious spammers.

Responding to posts directed to or mentioning my name is not spamming, nor is discussion of the current topic with an opposed view.

 

Intent is a huge part too. My intent is to educate, keep the game running strong and to help maintain its integrity. Other people may have intentions more focus on suppressing ones opposing voice. Simple conversation can dictate what is truly an issue and what isnt. Hence the forums.

Edited August 17, 2018 by olagatonjedi

Honestly, I don't know why people still engage in this. If you want the spamming to stop, stop replying. Then it is just spamming. Don't feed them, and it will go away. This thread has gone way past being relevant, mostly all posts by the same person. So stop replying.

 

I know this is the last time I will be posting in this dead horse thread. I won't put it on top of the page again...

I'm hoping they can weed through enough of the thread and see that there are people posting genuinely interested in a good and healthy conquest system that involves the differences in player tastes in gamestyles.

 

Whether you want to earn points by completing as many different objectives as possible, or if you would prefer to spam rampages / heroics as your preferred method of participation.

The point values are different so each type of play already has a built in "value" system, and with the restriction of once per week for the higher point objectives, you can't spam those indefinitely.

The lower point ones you can (pvp matches as example) and no one bats an eye.

Getting points for 8 heroics on the same toon on the same day, and then doing the same thing on an alt...

somehow THAT's not OK?

 

I'm already running on fumes with this game anyway. Bioware needs to do something to put this issue to bed one way or the other.

 

They need to say it is how it's meant to be and we're sticking with it, or that we're going to continue to walk it back closer to where it was before like we did with Galactic Command and getting end game gear.

 

Ignoring the thread is the only wrong move.

This game continues to have a lot of potential upside if BW continues on the path they are on. The longevity of the game is most important, and you get that by laying the best possible foundation that prevents abuse, overuse, and imbalance. The last 2 years, while it has had many people leave who were unable to accept changes, evolution, or new systems that cant be overly manipulated, has shown that the game is looking for that longevity first and foremost, will accept and welcome feedback, but wont be overintimidated with collaborated efforts that arent substantiated with factual, measurable data that shows the majority of its playerbase feel a specific way. Keep on this path, and once the newest dev team has the pieces of their plan solidly in place, it will be unlikely that Swtor will incur the downtime that the "old ways" of doing things lead it to. A strong foundation helps maintain consistency and balance, and its obvious the game didnt have this over the previous 4-6 years, despite the content that was put out. Keep conquest rolling forward as it is now, and we will see the light. Thanks devs, for your hard work and intent to improve the game.