The fact is SWTOR isn't a very watchable game.

Firstly there aren't any popular streamers playing it. Secondly no one wants to watch someone else watch stories, and thirdly there's not much multiplayer content in this game (such as open PVP).

There also isn't much of a community in game compared to WoW.

The fact is SWTOR isn't a very watchable game.

 

Firstly there aren't any popular streamers playing it. Secondly no one wants to watch someone else watch stories, and thirdly there's not much multiplayer content in this game (such as open PVP).

 

There also isn't much of a community in game compared to WoW.

And 4th, with the closure of the west coast servers, swtor has stopped being a global game. It is now mainly a eastern US/NA and EU game. Lots of West coast players dropped the game. That includes APAC and South American players.

Which means a smaller sample of people who are likely to be interested.

5th. You will also only ever get people interested in watching those streams during the very small prime times windows because that’s when the streamers can get enough people to participate in group content, especially pvp.

Prime time for EU is 5-9pm GMT

Prime time for EAST NA is 12am-3am GMT

Prime time for West NA is 3am-6am GMT

People who would watch those are also people who probably want to play during primetime.

I think the fact that it is still ranked fourth by game’s radar as the most popular MMO is staggering. It makes you wonder where they get this data from. I certainly hope they don’t only rely on companies to give them information.

It’s obvious that twitch is a poor way to gauge the popularity or health of the game.

So I’m not sure why people are still trying keep this thread alive with twitch data, which is meaningless. Especially when

WoW is a global game with servers all over the world and longer primetimes that overlap so much that all day is primetime.People can obviously login anytime of the day, ie while on their lunch break at work to watch twitch streams, which isn’t possible with swtor.

If you want to discuss player populations and activity, record every fleet, planet and instance population, on every server, 24/7 over a 2 week period. That is the only way you will get close to a real representation of what’s happening with population. If you want to go further and gage the participation, you would need multiple accounts where you could queue for pvp in all brackets, flashpoints, Operations and other group activities.

Other than that, only Bioware have an accurate account of what’s really happening,

The fact is SWTOR isn't a very watchable game.

 

Firstly there aren't any popular streamers playing it. Secondly no one wants to watch someone else watch stories, and thirdly there's not much multiplayer content in this game (such as open PVP).

 

There also isn't much of a community in game compared to WoW.

Well there are swtor streamers, like Kissingair, Snave and the PVP streamers, its mostly only about streaming PVP since raiding is not attractive now.

Well there are swtor streamers, like Kissingair, Snave and the PVP streamers, its mostly only about streaming PVP since raiding is not attractive now.

And they only play in primetime, so watching them is limited to those times, which is when most people who like the game will be playing themselves.

The state of twitch yesterday

 

https://i.imgur.com/uL0KaTU.png

 

Blizzard pre-released their new expansion. Streamers were given an option to play on Streamer Realms with better server hardware and increased RAM to showcase the game better. While they raced to Realm Firsts

 

SWTOR had under 300 viewers

 

 

Please don't say that's insignificant

Saddening...

Don’t forget, WoWs expansions require them to be purchased, unlike swtors which are free if you subscribe. Maybe if swtor had paid expansions + subscription, they would have more money to make more content.

I think people often forget that Blizzard don’t give stuff away for free like Bioware do. So they have more money to put back into the game.

Think they changed that just recently, to be like SWTOR in a way, everything (bar latest expansion) comes for a sub fee.

I think TOR's story would make it very watchable/streamable on twitch tbh. Loads of streams/let's plays for sp games out there. But you can't expect viewers to flock to content out for ages, those interested watched it already.

WoW just got an expansion with a ton of stuff, jewish christmas time (again) for SWTOR. Tbh 300 viewers is suprisingly high considering that lol. Why watch TOR when you've got Athene going for world first lvl cap =P

 

I think TOR's story would make it very watchable/streamable on twitch tbh. Loads of streams/let's plays for sp games out there. But you can't expect viewers to flock to content out for ages, those interested watched it already.

Exactly this

Think they changed that just recently, to be like SWTOR in a way, everything (bar latest expansion) comes for a sub fee.

 

 

I think TOR's story would make it very watchable/streamable on twitch tbh. Loads of streams/let's plays for sp games out there. But you can't expect viewers to flock to content out for ages, those interested watched it already.

 

WoW just got an expansion with a ton of stuff, jewish christmas time (again) for SWTOR. Tbh 300 viewers is suprisingly high considering that lol. Why watch TOR when you've got Athene going for world first lvl cap =P

But you still have to pay full price for the expansion

I know a fair bit about how things work on twitch, especially in relation to swtor so if anyone has any questions I can do my best to answer them.

I've briefly skimmed through this thread and there's too much for me to correct so I'll just offer to answer any questions instead.

The TLDR of swtor on twitch is, lack of good streamers, lack of community building and lack of community support.

You don't understand Twitch very well if you are surprised or in any way bothered by the lack of SWTOR streamers/viewers there. SWTOR is not considered a watchable game. Just because it is technically an MMO does not mean we should be measuring it up against WoW (a game btw that barely cracks the top 15 anymore unless a new expansion comes out or sodapoppin is playing it). And WoW is the defining title in the genre. That says more about the state of MMOs in terms of current streaming culture than Twitch activity says about SWTOR. Streaming is for mainstream FPS, BR and MOBA games and IRL. That is literally 95% of the viewership on Twitch on an average day.

Big streamers have acknowledged that they like to play many games that they can't stream because they would lose viewers and subs. Just seeing a streamer you pay $5/mo to support play some game you have no interest in will ultimately cost them money. Streaming is a business. Guys that average 20K+ viewers can literally lose thousands of dollars a month by playing some 6 year old game that teenagers and college kids don't care about.

Very few streamers have the devoted fanbase to play anything they want and have it not matter. DansGame, sodapoppin, but they are in the minority. Almost all the other big streamers ride the coat tails of what is hot this year.

You don't understand Twitch very well if you are surprised or in any way bothered by the lack of SWTOR streamers/viewers there. SWTOR is not considered a watchable game. Just because it is technically an MMO does not mean we should be measuring it up against WoW (a game btw that barely cracks the top 15 anymore unless a new expansion comes out or sodapoppin is playing it). And WoW is the defining title in the genre. That says more about the state of MMOs in terms of current streaming culture than Twitch activity says about SWTOR. Streaming is for mainstream FPS, BR and MOBA games and IRL. That is literally 95% of the viewership on Twitch on an average day.

 

Big streamers have acknowledged that they like to play many games that they can't stream because they would lose viewers and subs. Just seeing a streamer you pay $5/mo to support play some game you have no interest in will ultimately cost them money. Streaming is a business. Guys that average 20K+ viewers can literally lose thousands of dollars a month by playing some 6 year old game that teenagers and college kids don't care about.

 

Very few streamers have the devoted fanbase to play anything they want and have it not matter. DansGame, sodapoppin, but they are in the minority. Almost all the other big streamers ride the coat tails of what is hot this year.

I think you missed this from Snave, a very legit SWTOR/WoW streamer, above:

The TLDR of swtor on twitch is, lack of good streamers, lack of community building and lack of community support.

The state of twitch yesterday

 

https://i.imgur.com/uL0KaTU.png

 

Blizzard pre-released their new expansion. Streamers were given an option to play on Streamer Realms with better server hardware and increased RAM to showcase the game better. While they raced to Realm Firsts

 

SWTOR had under 300 viewers

 

 

Please don't say that's insignificant

For comparison, here are Knights of the Fallen Empire twitch numbers back on the day of release, October 27, 2015.

This is me worried about twitch numbers in a thread dated October.2015

Thread: Servers are pretty dead for being the day of expansion.

Posted: 10.27.2015 , 07:27 PM

...

If you want to gauge SWTOR's popularity with Full-time gamers, maybe look at twitch viewer statistics.

Currently at 3:27PM US Eastern time there are 610 viewers and 79 streamers broadcasting SWTOR.

...

Typically SWTOR has 300 viewers and less than 20 streamers broadcasting the game. There's definitely been a bump, but only in peak hours will twtich's numbers spike.

 

For comparison here are some other viewer counts of popular games or SWTOR competitors:

 

Taken 3:27PM US Eastern time (October 27th, 2015)

 

Overwatch 208,282 viewers

League of Legends 98,150 viewers

Dota 2 78,261 Viewers

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 57,763 viewers

Battleborn 2,001 viewers (first person shooter MOBA from gearbox software) (this game has not been released yet)

 

World of Warcraft 15,912 viewers

World of Tanks 11,516 viewers

RuneScape 4,124 viewers

Guild Wars 2 1,790 viewers

Warframe 768 viewers

Wildstar 213 viewers

Elder Scrolls Online 143 viewers

Posted: 10.27.2015 , 07:47 PM

...

Back to twitch viewers counts.

It seems a large portion of the gaming community is hyped for the Overwatch beta. ( It's a First Person Shooter MOBA from Blizzard)

 

Overwatch is beating both League of Legends and Dota 2 in viewer count combined.

208,282 viewers (Overwatch )

vs.

98,150 viewers League of Legends

78,261 Viewers Dota 2

 

That's just the number of people watching someone else play. Imagine how many total people are playing Overwatch. (It's on a closed beta, but Blizzard is massively granting access to Beta.)

hehheh the world before Overwatch

I know a fair bit about how things work on twitch, especially in relation to swtor so if anyone has any questions I can do my best to answer them.

 

I've briefly skimmed through this thread and there's too much for me to correct so I'll just offer to answer any questions instead.

 

The TLDR of swtor on twitch is, lack of good streamers, lack of community building and lack of community support.

I'll bite. How would I be entertained or learn something new by watching your Twitch channel?

I don't doubt that lack of content plays a role, but SWTOR doesn't lend itself to world firsts (a la Athene in WoW), doesn't have a strong Op / Raiding community; i.e., I can see and learn everything new on Youtube. It also doesn't have anything approaching an E-sport PvP community.

You and others keep telling us we don't get Twitch. With respect, it's not a terribly difficult concept. Absent learning something new, seeing something new, or being entertained by a funky personality (which makes the game itself irrelevant), I have no desire to watch SWTOR on Twitch.

As it turns out, the numbers are not just on my side -- they are OVERWHELMINGLY on my side. The games that excel are those where there is a competitive aspect, whether that is PvP, world firsts, etc.. The exception, of course, is personality driven channels.

Fundamentally, I start from the following assumption. The vast majority of people watch Twitch for one of three reasons, though they are not mutually exclusive; i.e., they can be combined.

1) To see something new that they can't experience.

2) To learn about something new.

3) To experience a personality, which has nothing to do with the game. As the post above me points out -- there are stream viewers in WoW with the sole purpose to see if Athene got world first. Any one who has followed Athene knows his followers are driven by his quirky personality. He is a showman.

But if you can show me a new and exciting way to watch you do the Traitor Arc, I'm all ears. Heck, I'll even subscribe. And while it's a bit snarky, I will repeat myself from earlier in this thread: I have no particular desire to watch how you and Theron romance each other. Unless you have incredibly witty comments to go along with it.

So, I end where I began: When the new story arc for 6.0 is introduced, what do I gain by watching your Twitch channel as opposed to experiencing it myself? Successful Twitch streamers need a hook. What is yours? Sell it to me and I'll check it out. (That's actually serious.)

TL-DR: Twitch is successful when there is a dynamic element to it. PvP inherently creates that. World firsts inherently create that. Quirky personalities inherently create that. Story driven MMORPGs interrupted by cut scenes with three options do not.

Dasty

TBH when it comes to my Twitch stream I have a base of community that dont give a flying **** what game I am playing.

They come and watch me to talk, chill, have fun etc

Yes I do lose some viewers when playing SWTOR compared to my usual games but people know what im playing through other means on any given day when I start up.

Twitch can be a fickle thing at times - But having a core following, them people really wont give a dam

3) To experience a personality, which has nothing to do with the game.

Don't forget sports bras and yoga pants.

I think you missed this from Snave, a very legit SWTOR/WoW streamer, above:

The TLDR of swtor on twitch is, lack of good streamers, lack of community building and lack of community support.

Bioware have had some reasonable community spirit but always lacked direct intervention necessary to their position, and then they shot their community in the feet a few times and once in the gut (with GC), that can't of helped matters much. the problem is that bioware hasn't publically acknowledged they'd done bad at any point and keep pushing the same lousy content around. they never really got into contests and promoted this guild or that guild or this player or that player, nothing that really defines bioware or their game values.

but "what ifs" don't matter in the end because it is a waste of effort trying and this is what we got here and now.

I'll bite. How would I be entertained or learn something new by watching your Twitch channel?

 

I don't doubt that lack of content plays a role, but SWTOR doesn't lend itself to world firsts (a la Athene in WoW), doesn't have a strong Op / Raiding community; i.e., I can see and learn everything new on Youtube. It also doesn't have anything approaching an E-sport PvP community.

 

You and others keep telling us we don't get Twitch. With respect, it's not a terribly difficult concept. Absent learning something new, seeing something new, or being entertained by a funky personality (which makes the game itself irrelevant), I have no desire to watch SWTOR on Twitch.

 

As it turns out, the numbers are not just on my side -- they are OVERWHELMINGLY on my side. The games that excel are those where there is a competitive aspect, whether that is PvP, world firsts, etc.. The exception, of course, is personality driven channels.

 

Fundamentally, I start from the following assumption. The vast majority of people watch Twitch for one of three reasons, though they are not mutually exclusive; i.e., they can be combined.

 

1) To see something new that they can't experience.

 

2) To learn about something new.

 

3) To experience a personality, which has nothing to do with the game. As the post above me points out -- there are stream viewers in WoW with the sole purpose to see if Athene got world first. Any one who has followed Athene knows his followers are driven by his quirky personality. He is a showman.

 

But if you can show me a new and exciting way to watch you do the Traitor Arc, I'm all ears. Heck, I'll even subscribe. And while it's a bit snarky, I will repeat myself from earlier in this thread: I have no particular desire to watch how you and Theron romance each other. Unless you have incredibly witty comments to go along with it.

 

So, I end where I began: When the new story arc for 6.0 is introduced, what do I gain by watching your Twitch channel as opposed to experiencing it myself? Successful Twitch streamers need a hook. What is yours? Sell it to me and I'll check it out. (That's actually serious.)

 

TL-DR: Twitch is successful when there is a dynamic element to it. PvP inherently creates that. World firsts inherently create that. Quirky personalities inherently create that. Story driven MMORPGs interrupted by cut scenes with three options do not.

 

Dasty

There's so much wrong with this post -- so much that it's pretty much impossible to respond to with anything other than "this is all wrong"...

I'll bite. How would I be entertained or learn something new by watching your Twitch channel?

 

What you find entertaining is very subjective and not at all connected to success/popularity. For example, I don't really understand why the Kardashians are so popular but that doesn't make them irrelevant or non-successful overall.

 

My stream is generally a mix of bad dad jokes, dark humour, various discussions and extensive swtor conversations. The story isn't really my thing so the conversations tend to be more based around pvp, class balance, game mechanics and mmos in general. It's not really possible for me to tell you what you could learn from watching because I have no idea what you already know. Generally speaking, I talk extensively about warzone mechanics and how each class fills a various role in that warzone "meta". I'm probably most famous for people the operative class rep and for stalling/sap capping players on the off node - I'm fairly confident I could teach you something on that front but who knows, maybe you're an expert!

 

 

I don't doubt that lack of content plays a role, but SWTOR doesn't lend itself to world firsts (a la Athene in WoW), doesn't have a strong Op / Raiding community; i.e., I can see and learn everything new on Youtube. It also doesn't have anything approaching an E-sport PvP community.

 

 

Watching things on youtube or twitch is almost a semantic argument because they offer a fairly similar product but from different stances. The big bonus on twitch is that you can interact with the person creating the content as it happens, so if you're watching a fight and you don't quite understand what's going on you can directly ask them, or you can ask them their favourite colour it really depends on how you want to engage. There are plenty of games that don't have what you're mentioning here, I watched Asmongold stream WoW a month before new content released to over 30k people because he's built up a large community.

 

You and others keep telling us we don't get Twitch. With respect, it's not a terribly difficult concept. Absent learning something new, seeing something new, or being entertained by a funky personality (which makes the game itself irrelevant), I have no desire to watch SWTOR on Twitch.

 

I mean, ok. It's up to you what content you consume, I have no problem with you not watching twitch. It does seem to me that you're focused too much on the mechanical aspect (as in, what can they do for me) rather than the community aspect which is usually far more important. My channel is essentially like a guild for people, they can hang out, chat, have running jokes, it's essentially an extension not only from the game I'm playing but from the people taking part.

 

As it turns out, the numbers are not just on my side -- they are OVERWHELMINGLY on my side. The games that excel are those where there is a competitive aspect, whether that is PvP, world firsts, etc.. The exception, of course, is personality driven channels.

 

This is correct, competitive games are generally speaking the most popular because people tend to have more skin in the game with those types of channels. It's not me vs pixels, it's me vs another human who maybe you also know and that's just more interesting to most people. That doesn't mean that is the only type of channel and that doesn't mean you have to create that type of content to be successful.

 

Basically what you're saying is something like it's only worth putting on events like the world cup in football because that's the one that gets watched the most so don't bother with chat shows about football, analysis shows about football, promoting football personalities on other platforms and smaller leagues.

 

Fundamentally, I start from the following assumption. The vast majority of people watch Twitch for one of three reasons, though they are not mutually exclusive; i.e., they can be combined.

 

As a heads up all of these points apply to literally any form of media.

1) To see something new that they can't experience.

 

This can be an aspect for sure. I also recently watched "The Avengers" because I'm not Dr Strange and can't fight Thanos IRL, guess that's a pointless film.

 

2) To learn about something new.

 

This can be an aspect for sure. I recently took an online course in using Excel, guess I should tell them to shut that down.

 

3) To experience a personality, which has nothing to do with the game. As the post above me points out -- there are stream viewers in WoW with the sole purpose to see if Athene got world first. Any one who has followed Athene knows his followers are driven by his quirky personality. He is a showman.

 

This can be an aspect for sure. I recently watched an old Bill Hicks standup show. Good job he's already dead or I'd have to break the news that he needed to shut it down. Oh, and Athene is a viewbotting cult leader. He's not a showman, he's a fraud and a thief.

 

But if you can show me a new and exciting way to watch you do the Traitor Arc, I'm all ears. Heck, I'll even subscribe. And while it's a bit snarky, I will repeat myself from earlier in this thread: I have no particular desire to watch how you and Theron romance each other. Unless you have incredibly witty comments to go along with it.

 

The story isn't really my thing but there are plenty of story-based games that people broadcast. If you don't like a certain type of content mate no one is forcing you to watch it. I'm sure some more talented and funnier person could easily turn what you've just described into an enjoyable experience but that's not what I am unfortunately so all I could offer you is the same thing I offer my viewers when I play through the story - lots of sarcastic commentary.

 

So, I end where I began: When the new story arc for 6.0 is introduced, what do I gain by watching your Twitch channel as opposed to experiencing it myself? Successful Twitch streamers need a hook. What is yours? Sell it to me and I'll check it out. (That's actually serious.)

 

This might be a hard thing to believe in the "like and subscribe" generation but I really don't care if you watch me. If I'm going to be completely honest here based on your forum posts I'd prefer you didn't. You're fixating on the story as the only reason to watch someone and how you don't like that. That's ok big shoots, you're allowed to not like watching the story. Successful streamers who broadcast story have an audience THAT LIKES WATCHING STORY.

 

TL-DR: Twitch is successful when there is a dynamic element to it. PvP inherently creates that. World firsts inherently create that. Quirky personalities inherently create that. Story driven MMORPGs interrupted by cut scenes with three options do not.

 

Dasty

 

TLDR - I don't think you understand content consumption at all.

I play

I am not on twitch

 

Your argument is flawed.

This this this this this this

I'll bite. How would I be entertained or learn something new by watching your Twitch channel?

 

What you find entertaining is very subjective and not at all connected to success/popularity. For example, I don't really understand why the Kardashians are so popular but that doesn't make them irrelevant or non-successful overall.

 

My stream is generally a mix of bad dad jokes, dark humour, various discussions and extensive swtor conversations. The story isn't really my thing so the conversations tend to be more based around pvp, class balance, game mechanics and mmos in general. It's not really possible for me to tell you what you could learn from watching because I have no idea what you already know. Generally speaking, I talk extensively about warzone mechanics and how each class fills a various role in that warzone "meta". I'm probably most famous for people the operative class rep and for stalling/sap capping players on the off node - I'm fairly confident I could teach you something on that front but who knows, maybe you're an expert!

 

 

 

 

 

Watching things on youtube or twitch is almost a semantic argument because they offer a fairly similar product but from different stances. The big bonus on twitch is that you can interact with the person creating the content as it happens, so if you're watching a fight and you don't quite understand what's going on you can directly ask them, or you can ask them their favourite colour it really depends on how you want to engage. There are plenty of games that don't have what you're mentioning here, I watched Asmongold stream WoW a month before new content released to over 30k people because he's built up a large community.

 

 

 

I mean, ok. It's up to you what content you consume, I have no problem with you not watching twitch. It does seem to me that you're focused too much on the mechanical aspect (as in, what can they do for me) rather than the community aspect which is usually far more important. My channel is essentially like a guild for people, they can hang out, chat, have running jokes, it's essentially an extension not only from the game I'm playing but from the people taking part.

 

 

 

This is correct, competitive games are generally speaking the most popular because people tend to have more skin in the game with those types of channels. It's not me vs pixels, it's me vs another human who maybe you also know and that's just more interesting to most people. That doesn't mean that is the only type of channel and that doesn't mean you have to create that type of content to be successful.

 

Basically what you're saying is something like it's only worth putting on events like the world cup in football because that's the one that gets watched the most so don't bother with chat shows about football, analysis shows about football, promoting football personalities on other platforms and smaller leagues.

 

 

 

As a heads up all of these points apply to literally any form of media.

 

 

This can be an aspect for sure. I also recently watched "The Avengers" because I'm not Dr Strange and can't fight Thanos IRL, guess that's a pointless film.

 

 

 

This can be an aspect for sure. I recently took an online course in using Excel, guess I should tell them to shut that down.

 

 

 

This can be an aspect for sure. I recently watched an old Bill Hicks standup show. Good job he's already dead or I'd have to break the news that he needed to shut it down. Oh, and Athene is a viewbotting cult leader. He's not a showman, he's a fraud and a thief.

 

 

 

The story isn't really my thing but there are plenty of story-based games that people broadcast. If you don't like a certain type of content mate no one is forcing you to watch it. I'm sure some more talented and funnier person could easily turn what you've just described into an enjoyable experience but that's not what I am unfortunately so all I could offer you is the same thing I offer my viewers when I play through the story - lots of sarcastic commentary.

 

 

 

This might be a hard thing to believe in the "like and subscribe" generation but I really don't care if you watch me. If I'm going to be completely honest here based on your forum posts I'd prefer you didn't. You're fixating on the story as the only reason to watch someone and how you don't like that. That's ok big shoots, you're allowed to not like watching the story. Successful streamers who broadcast story have an audience THAT LIKES WATCHING STORY.

 

 

 

TLDR - I don't think you understand content consumption at all.

Also is this not the longest forum post ever or what? XD

I respect you for responding to everyone though.

Here is the absurd part of this entire thread:

Most players actually play the game, not twitch.

SWTOR is a very casual game in MMO terms, and as such is not the haven for all the hardcore twitch publishers who frequent MMOs better known for being bleeding edge hard core content providers.

AND.. it should be obvious to players why Twitch is big with WoW ----> Twitch and Blizzard Entertainment signed a two-year deal in June 2017 to make Twitch be the exclusive streaming broadcaster of select Blizzard eSports championship events, with viewers under Twitch Prime earning special rewards in various Blizzard games. In other words Blizzard uses Twitch as a marketing and promotions vehicle... which is smart on their part. Even though WoW is not directly part of this.. it gets the pull-through anyway.

The biggest audiences by the way on Twitch as of 2018 are: Fortnite, League of Legends, Dota 2, PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, Hearthstone, Overwatch and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive with a combined total of over 356 million hours watched. https://www.statista.com/statistics/507786/leading-game-content-twitch-by-number-hours-viewed/

Does it really matter in the context of SWTOR? No.. it does not. What matters is are their people active on your server when you play, and do you enjoy playing SWTOR.

Twitch is nothing more then an out of context anecdote being peddled here as "evidence". You are free to peddle it, and others are free to drink the Kool-Aid you are peddling.... but it in no way affects the state of the game.

Just look at the name "Twitch" ..... it pretty well embodies the premise of twitch based reactionary esports game play against other players.... everything that SWTOR IS NOT at it's core. It was in fact derived from Justin which was pretty much all about esports even though it did expand through users applying it beyond it's original roots.

Here is the absurd part of this entire thread:

 

Most players actually play the game, not twitch.

That can be said about any game on Twitch...this fact isn't unique or special for SWTOR...it's the case with EVERY game.

TLDR - I don't think you understand content consumption at all.

TL-DR: You think I don't understand content consumption; whereas, I think you don't understand how to interpret data.

I'm pretty sure I understand content consumption just fine. Indeed, I even discussed the three primary forms / archetypes of content that people like to consume. It really, really isn't that complicated despite the insistence of you and Joon that I (and others) don't get it. I operationalize it -- while you and Joon cast aspersions suggesting that it's above me. With respect, it's not Advanced Euclidean Geometry.

Moreover, your post supported my argument. I expressly noted the type of position you are in (vice the first two, i.e., PvP and World Firsts). Specifically, you run a channel where people like to hang out because they like you personally. You have built a community around you, which is actually awesome (that's not sarcasm). Does lack of content impact your channel? Sure, but people still come because they like to just chill in your channel. It's not terribly shocking to hypothesize , though, that with the release of 6.0 your numbers will go up, if only a little bit. And, of course, does BW not sponsoring events a la Blizzard hurt you too? Sure.

But overwhelming statistical evidence has been presented to you and others in this thread about which games are succeeding the most and in which manifestly different genres. You can disagree with our reasoning for why, but it doesn't really matter. Ultimately, there is one inexorable piece of evidence that is impossible to refute -- the data itself. The independent variable in the list (supported by a citation) provided by Andryah is obvious and warrants no further discussion.

Cheers and peace out. I believe we've both made our positions clear.

Hugs,

Dasty

Here is the absurd part of this entire thread:

 

Most players actually play the game, not twitch.

 

SWTOR is a very casual game in MMO terms, and as such is not the haven for all the hardcore twitch publishers who frequent MMOs better known for being bleeding edge hard core content providers.

 

AND.. it should be obvious to players why Twitch is big with WoW ----> Twitch and Blizzard Entertainment signed a two-year deal in June 2017 to make Twitch be the exclusive streaming broadcaster of select Blizzard eSports championship events, with viewers under Twitch Prime earning special rewards in various Blizzard games. In other words Blizzard uses Twitch as a marketing and promotions vehicle... which is smart on their part. Even though WoW is not directly part of this.. it gets the pull-through anyway.

 

The biggest audiences by the way on Twitch as of 2018 are: Fortnite, League of Legends, Dota 2, PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, Hearthstone, Overwatch and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive with a combined total of over 356 million hours watched. https://www.statista.com/statistics/507786/leading-game-content-twitch-by-number-hours-viewed/

 

Does it really matter in the context of SWTOR? No.. it does not. What matters is are their people active on your server when you play, and do you enjoy playing SWTOR.

 

Twitch is nothing more then an out of context anecdote being peddled here as "evidence". You are free to peddle it, and others are free to drink the Kool-Aid you are peddling.... but it in no way affects the state of the game.

 

Just look at the name "Twitch" ..... it pretty well embodies the premise of twitch based reactionary esports game play against other players.... everything that SWTOR IS NOT at it's core. It was in fact derived from Justin which was pretty much all about esports even though it did expand through users applying it beyond it's original roots.

This is the truth, man.

Well I have to say that in comparing Twitch viewers with WoW and SWTOR that WoW will always win. First, they have a brand new expansion that is only about a week old. Plus the group content in WoW still requires full groups. Unless you are doing legacy dungeons and raids -- you really do need to group and know how to do the fights. WoW has just come out with a whole new set of group related content to go with the Battle for Azeroth, plus a lot of people are still playing Legion (their prior expansion, which also still requires group content for several things). Twitch does live streams that showcase all the dungeon, raid, and PVP stuff and that is why WoW will have more viewers. I have never seen a live stream on SWTOR with the exception of a PVP one before.

SWTOR's last expansion was very solo-based with a sprinkling of operations they introduced in Iokath. The Flashpoints can all be done solo and the only incentive for group play is what?? more decorations for strongholds?? I enjoyed the expansion, and although I think there were a lot of areas that could have improved as far as story/dialog and filling in the plot holes, I do not feel it was a complete fail.

WoW is also known for injecting pop culture references in their stories. SWTOR does not do this. But this is like comparing apples to oranges to me. SWTOR has so many things that WoW doesn't have and I still like playing both games. I would be really bored if they were the same.