People are under the impression that ops are op. I have lvl'd 3+ operatives by pure pvp. Had to go back and grab ship. The same goes with every class in the game. I am familiar with each warzone and class mechanics. I don't freak out when a PT runs super fast and cry hacks, or when a jugg heals to full with ED, or a sin or sorc teleport or somehow I take a massive hit on myself when I ambush some jugg with saber reflect. I don't wonder when everyone is flying around really fast when I recognize predation or when an op is immune to cc when they roll. The point is every class has a multitude of obvious and not so obvious abilities. If you do not play every class you will not fully understand their capabilities.

 

I remember in my noob days thinking marauders attacked so fast or certain abilities hit hard and I didnt know what or when. Then I played and became very familiar with massacre animation and ravage and so on. Knew my limitations of each cooldown and which classes they could effect.

 

Point being, give actual sound arguements or proof to why you think operatives or any class is OP. Not "sins hit me for 30k" or "pt two shotted me" that goes no where and is not a logical arguement.

 

If you have any good videos of showing the impossible that would help.(Granted No one wants to watch 15 mins, so specific times or short clips help) If I see an op holding off 4 people and I can see a merc spamming only tracer missile or a sorc using storm only. Pretty sure that much is obvious to why the operative may seem op to the predictable missile spam that is easily avoided.

 

Due to the glorious nature of my AMD card I have found I cannot even launch minecraft because it is to demanding but swtor can be played on ultra settings. Recording my games also does not work. So if anyone has anything to share that from a veteran pvp'ers perspective shows someone solo holding a node forever against hordes of skilled enemies that would be amazing.

 

I have watched teammates as I attempt to rush to a node get capped by an op or sin while facing them not even cc'd. Then they tell me straight up that they were ninja capped or cc'd. Sure why not, makes you feel good and maybe the rest of the team bought it but you and me know the truth.

 

So prove to me that ops are gods of 8 v 8 warzones, that they can do the impossible where other classes fall short. (Most situations I belive happens is because of a massive skill gap. Players are overwhelmed and has nothing to do woth class capabilities at that point). If you argue an op can stunlock the tell me what you are playing? Why is an op making it a bad day for you? I'll try not to be such a d-bag since I can be pretty straight forward with people.

 

This thread is mainly to defend or argue against operatives. I know their strengths and weaknesses but I want to know if others do, or are there misunderstandings about class mechanics. (Been called a speed hacker for using 50% movement speed with sneak). It happens, not everyone has pvp'd since 1.0 nor played every class. It's just sometimes I see people blow up over something they don't know which sparks more hate and so on. I assume that will happen with this. But let's keep it civilized...somewhat.

Edited August 24, 2016 by VixenRawR

If you think people think Operatives are gods and super overpowered you are very mistaken and the thread is pointless.

Concealment is just one of the best PvP specs right now. Nothing more nothing less.

 

I already explained and many people have already said why they are in a good place. The ability to be immune to everything for 2 seconds, 2 times every 15 sec is pretty powerful. + one of the main reasons it is so good is beacuse the operative keeps being immune for 0.2 or 0.3 seconds, not sure exactly, after the roll is technically over. Due to their mechanics and how they are work they one of the best node and 1v1 classes. Good for hutball too.

 

All of the above doesn't mean they are unbeatable and are destroying the balance of the game. Or that everyone has some huge problem with operatives. Not sure what you are hoping to hear in this thread.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Kaedusz

If you think people think Operatives are gods and super overpowered you very mistaken and the thread is pointless.

 

People argue quite often that operatives are amazing at a number of things in warzones and superior at it than other classes. Tell me why you think they aren't then.

The whole issue is social inertia from launch when we literally globaled people and the infamous quote about gangs of ops stunlocking players making them unsub

Some people don't have clarity or understanding of operatives. Or they believe they do but in reality confuse abilities. If you are already familiar with the class you are welcome to share advice. I just feel the class gets a lot of heat pointed its way through confusion.

The whole issue is social inertia from launch when we literally globaled people and the infamous quote about gangs of ops stunlocking players making them unsub

 

I agree people can be stuck up on the past. Operatives now are a completely different beast than 1.0.

The whole issue is social inertia from launch when we literally globaled people and the infamous quote about gangs of ops stunlocking players making them unsub

That's misreading the situation.

 

I haven't heard somebody complaining about them, the way they are complaining for example healing sorc. Haven't heard any complaints at all actually. Operatives are not that op. However when asked which classes are performing well, operatives are one of the good answers. You have to not have been in a wz for a while or be a bad to average operative not to see that.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Kaedusz

People argue quite often that operatives are amazing at a number of things in warzones and superior at it than other classes. Tell me why you think they aren't then.

 

Did you even read his response? No, ops aren't OP. They are wonky. They have weak burst, but incredible survivability and control.

 

Sure, you can start counting CC again, including roots and slows and tell everyone that sins are superior in control (and forget to mention that they need basically every control utility for that), but here's the fact: ops hold nodes better. An idiot op who rolls off CD and CCs off CD will still live longer than any other class, barring maybe juggs and sorcs. All you need in order to hold a node as an op is to roll and grenade.

 

Most people don't think they're OP, they think they're unbalanced. I think many op players would be glad to trade in survivability for burst.

That's misreading the situation.

 

I haven't heard somebody complaining about them, the way they are complaining for example healing sorc. Haven't heard any complaints at all actually. Operatives are not that op. However when asked which classes are performing well, operatives are one of the good answers. You have to not have been in a wz for a while or be a bad to average operative not to see that.

 

That's kind of the point of this thread. I agree, I don't think ops are op, but I think they are great at surviving, 1 v 1 and sure a stealth at any node is a benefit. Sleep dart alone can bring support before combat is ever initiated. But I still hear plenty of noise about operatives being stronger than they really are. Operatives are probably the most in your face class with memorable laughs and stabby sounds. It's like going to a movie and months later your only real memory is a car alarm that went off for 30 mins. I feel operatives have that kind of affect.

Did you even read his response?

 

 

 

That was all there was when I read the post. He edited more in after.

I haven't heard somebody complaining about them, the way they are complaining for example healing sorc.

I have. My point is that while at launch people complained that we're killing them while stunlocked now most of the time people complain that they can't kill us 1v1. From someones to fear we became irritating trolls.

That was all there was when I read the post. He edited more in after.

 

And? What's your response?

Did you even read his response? No, ops aren't OP. They are wonky. They have weak burst, but incredible survivability and control.

 

Sure, you can start counting CC again, including roots and slows and tell everyone that sins are superior in control (and forget to mention that they need basically every control utility for that), but here's the fact: ops hold nodes better. An idiot op who rolls off CD and CCs off CD will still live longer than any other class, barring maybe juggs and sorcs. All you need in order to hold a node as an op is to roll and grenade.

 

Most people don't think they're OP, they think they're unbalanced. I think many op players would be glad to trade in survivability for burst.

 

I agree with you for the most part but the point is for other people to understand it. Been in plent of warzones where people swear ops are 3 shotting them and never take damage. Which is completely false. I agree ops need more burst, I would gladly change roll somehow if ops could hit harder and rely on some other dcd than an dcd that used 2 global cooldowns.

 

I still think an operative won't stall much against an organized team. Either its solo guarded its teams only node or there are 3 dps running it down in 1/2 a min. An op cannot stop 3 cappers in stealth. Roll has a 10 second cooldown. A capper can los the op and the other two could easily cc it and take node or all 3 tunnel it between cc or even net it will either die or lose node or escape comabt. No resting and h2f for that takes to long cause 3 dps instantly start to cap. So you will have to toss grenade and bam back to being focused...one more set of rolls and and you have to survive the burst of 3 dps. You die. If help comes your dps will be inferior compared to group fights. I agree that ops are definitely one of the better solo guarders and cappers in the game but it doesn't mean other classes aren't cabable of holding of multiple attackers long enough for help to arrive. Yeah, 3 ops or 3 sins could easily blow you apart including another op unless you are a jugg or sorc with barrier. But 3 stealth in one team that isn't a premade is pretty rare. I think operatives shine the most when fighting people who don't understand the class or just arent on the same skill level. Its easy to hold off multiple attackers and to steal a node from those people. And I can see that being an issue in reg pvp but should someone really be docked because of their skill at a particular class? Especially when like you said a sorc or jugg (which are far easier to play) can accomplish the same exact feat.

 

I agree though that there should be some trade for higher burst because I still feel I can accomplish much more in a warzone vs equal skilled players on other classes without having to use my low burst op. Yes I agree they are unbalanced in 1 v 1 but add anymore dps and they can be dealt with in almost the same manner as other class of equal skill.

I have. My point is that while at launch people complained that we're killing them while stunlocked now most of the time people complain that they can't kill us 1v1. From someones to fear we became irritating trolls.

 

Ops 1v1 are nothing to scoff at. They dictate the pace of the fight and have more control than any other class.

If things get tough they LoS, roll and heal then open up on you from stealth again while you're trying to recover.

They don't have huge numbers but they don't need it, they whittle you down while /laughing and off healing.

the thing that most people don't seem to understand about ops is that they take a lot of skill to play well. yes we get 2 1.5 seconds of immunity, but that is a very small window, as far as cooldowns go. we can't just go around rolling for funsies, it has to be timed, to avoid an incoming hit, and that requires paying attention and planning. it is pretty much the same for evasion; 3 seconds is very short for a cooldown and if you use it at the wrong time, you get virtually no benefit from it. and then, of course, there is the constant complaint "he stun locked me and i couldn't do anything!" this is so much ********, and instantly tells me that you have no idea what you are talking about. ops have no more stuns than most classes and the weakest damage of all classes. if you stood there, not moving or using any dcd's, i still could not get anywhere close to bursting you down within the span of a 4 second hard stun, and the only other stuns i have are soft.

 

tl;dr: ops are exactly where they need to be, because they require a lot of skill to play well, and do not reward players that don't put in the work to learn them.

Edited August 24, 2016 by sumquy

(Concealment) Operatives are not OP. They do not have the potential overall damage or dps of most classes. If they were OP they would be topping the damage charts every warzone. That being said they are very strong in 1v1s and 1v2s due to there excellent survivability. They are good at controlling an enemy and healing themselves along with good burst damage. In larger group fights there usefulness in mediocre at best compared to other classes. Not to mention operative is not the easiest class to play compared to other classes.

 

On the topic of OP classes i would argue that tank juggs are broken atm. The fact that they can survive as long as a regular tank and do almost as much dps as a damage spec because they are wearing dps gear is plain dumb. Besides operatives it is the best 1v1 spec due to the reasons above along with its many cc's. I wouldn't say that it is OP, though I would say it is not working as intended.

Edited August 24, 2016 by -BlackDragon-

Ops 1v1 are nothing to scoff at. They dictate the pace of the fight and have more control than any other class.

If things get tough they LoS, roll and heal then open up on you from stealth again while you're trying to recover.

They don't have huge numbers but they don't need it, they whittle you down while /laughing and off healing.

This 100%

Ops ......... have more control than any other class. ......

 

Ops do not have more control than most classes in the game. They cannot pull, or knockback, or aoe root, or do more than one hard stun. Their one redeeming quality is flashbang is aoe (For cc), but unlike the sniper you need to be close to use it, and has to be timed properly. While a jugg and mara may not have a 8 second aoe mez, It does last 6 seconds and it does perform a lot better as it is a pbaoe. Operatives are not running around stun locking anyone and burst you into the ground. The only classes capable of dealing back to back hardstuns are Jugg tanks with Backhand and Force choke, PTs with aoe carbonize and Electrocute (I think its called that as well, w.e the basic 4 second hard stun every class comes with by default). Im not really going to bother with sins and spike.

 

As I have pointed out in another post operatives have 5 cc abilities total. 2 of which are soft stuns. Another is a slow and Crippling slice that prevents turning. Plenty of other classes in general have better control like Jugg tanks and juggs in general, snipers, sins, pts. (I can always go into more detail).

 

The thing that places ops stuns in the frustration range is the ability to mindtrap (Sleep dart, I find myself mixing those ability but the result is the same), start capping, you break cc and they flashbang and finish the cap because it last 8 seconds. This is easily avoided by staying at a ranged distance from any node that can be capped easily like hypergate with its 6 seconds. An op is melee so if they have to run to you to sleep dart they wont be able to get to the node in time and cap it before your sleep dart wears off. After that you can use your cc breaker if they flashbang.

 

It is one of the most commonly used tactics to cap a node is to wait for a dps guarder to wander within range and quickly take advantage of that and steal the node. Of course two stealth using sleep dart or mind trap can almost ensure a victory besides the fact that the stealth has to hope you dont have a cc breaker or to cc you as you break and stop the cc. Granted two ops can almost ensure a cap unless you are a sorc, another stealth (Especially a sin with cc immunity), or a pt and have your shoulder cannon up and are actually within melee range which is that abilities advantage.

 

If I am forced to break cc on the first attempt because of multiple stealth I will attempt to cc the node caper right away, or use a delayed attack such as thermal detonator. So If I am flashbanged it will go off a few seconds later and stop them from capping...by then it would be to late for them to restart the cap before flashbang wore off and I am white barred.

 

Of course sometimes you are left guarding with no cc escape and when it is know that there are stealth on the team it is smart to play it safe and let your team know you cannot defend the node properly, especially on a class without unique advantages. Generally a marauder and jugg can be out smarted with their melee disadvantage that may lead them close to the node. A merc can be controlled by two stealth easily as well. Imo Stealth, sniper, sorc and pt are probably the best at deterring multiple stealth. Snipers are great because depending on utility they can be in Entrench half the time and their stealth range in crouch is great. A lot of times within about the last 26 seconds or so I will pop entrench.(In hypergate, where node stealing is the easiest with its 6 second cap timer) Some stealth like to sneak a cap at the last moments so no support can arrive. They will not be able to sleep dart me. Unless two stealth can kill and cap on a sniper in the next 20 seconds the node will not be lost. Snipers are durable and can hold out for that long easily.

 

Also use aoe at random spots where you feel a stealth could be hiding out. I don't know how many times a stealth scan, a force storm, or suppressive fire have pulled out hidden foes when placed in random spots. Plus it makes stealth cautious and can buy more time. Just don't lose focus of the node while doing that. =) I've capped on people who are spamming aoes right and left and they forgot to look at their node.

 

So stun locking in most circumstances really does little if you play it smart and have a team trying to win objectively. You can't be blamed for having no cc breaker available then being capped by a duo of stealth, especially when you tried your best and warned the team of the the possibility.

 

Communication is probably thee biggest downfall in objective warzones, and team awareness. A lot of times I can rotate to a node without a call. If I find myself on civil war with 6 teammates fighting 3 enemies for a longer than average duration without backup I can be certain of a few things. 1. They rage quit. 2. They gave up and are all guarding their one node, or 3. and most likely they have multiple incoming our teams other node. And it helps to pay attention to the amount of people you are fighting and stealth you see to maybe think the other person is about to be ambushed. They may not know that the 3 stealth at mid are no longer there. But as someone who may have recently fought them and havent seem them in combat for a bit may assume they are headed towards the other node. That is being proactive and I have saved nodes doing that as well.

 

Communicate and play as a team goes a long way. I have been at a door on Voidstar with one other person. Maybe we are fighting one person who attempted the door and the rest of my team is at the other door destroying the onslaught. After they die they will swap sides and head to my door. I have found in many cases I am suddenly overwhelmedin a 6 v 2 battle and it quickly becomes 6 v 1. Regardless of calls made. The rest of my team should quickly realize that they are now in a 2 v 6 and no one is coming to to take their door. A lot of times its a tank heal combo, or just a jugg with many lives buying time. Start sending people over right away, that 9 lived jugg isn't going to cap on 6, just leave 2 behind. Don't kill it then head over...most likely they have planted on the door. Also to my dead teammate who was with me at the door. Make calls, let them know that the door is about to be taken in a moments notice. The original call may not have stressed the urgency when maybe it was just 2 people attacking. Things can escalate quickly in a voidstar when the offensive team has no door to hold them back after death.

 

Anyways my two cents. (Not all about ops, but any stealth can be a deciding factor in overwhelming an enemy). I may not even make a call because I am guarding with another player and a lone marauder shows up and we kill it. It shows up again, but this time multiple stealth pop out and quickly throw us in a frenzy. a 1 v 2 becomes a 4 v 2 in a matter of seconds.

Edited August 24, 2016 by VixenRawR

 

If you have any good videos of showing the impossible that would help.

First time I agree with you. We indeed actually need more videos as tangible proof. All that chatter on the forums have little weight in the end.

 

I wish I could do that but I got huge FPS drops in wz those days. Whereas outside of them, I fluctate between 40 ish -80 ish FPS which is decent.

First time I agree with you. We indeed actually need more videos as tangible proof. All that chatter on the forums have little weight in the end.

 

I wish I could do that but I got huge FPS drops in wz those days. Whereas outside of them, I fluctate between 40 ish -80 ish FPS which is decent.

 

Exactly. Plus if you can't use video a descriptive encounter of what happened to you will be nice and may be explained away. Things such as what powers had been used, how long, or maybe just a description of what they were doing. Sometimes a combination of classes and powers can throw people off. I would love specific videos, and I agree, fps in warzones can be horrible at times. I can do ten warzones fine, then que into one and It feels like i'm swimming through concrete.

And sorry for the harsh words earlier in other threads.

Ops 1v1 are nothing to scoff at. They dictate the pace of the fight and have more control than any other class.

If things get tough they LoS, roll and heal then open up on you from stealth again while you're trying to recover.

They don't have huge numbers but they don't need it, they whittle you down while /laughing and off healing.

 

An op defending I couldn't agree more, it could prolong a fight forever and eventually kill you in the process. Their dps is not top notch but its almost always will win in a 1 v 1 situation in the end.

 

However attacking in 1 v 1...equally skilled against their oponent, an operative may be victorious but that comes at a price, time. Low birst, 2 gcds with roll, 2 gcds with inetial probes and more if you continue to keep them up. Ops can spend a lot of time avoiding damage while they work on killing someone. That's great but any sort of communication and teamwork will result and a friend coming and ensuring the operative dies, or loses the node.

 

People may say this is a waste of resources but lets just put this at a bare minimum. 7 vs 7 in mid on civil war, 1 guarding on each side. An op leaves the fray to attempt to cap the enemy node. It is soon turning into a 6 v 7 and a 1 v 1 at a side node. First this leaves mid at a slight advantage based on superior numbers of skill and class balance is relatively equal. (Lets just assume there aren't multiple healers and tanks). You are at a node when an operative starts making your day miserable. You try to kill it, but it rolls away, laughs, and pops probes and you know this is going south. Luckily you called incoming and someone broke off from mid (Bare minimum). It is now 6 v 6 and will become 2 v 1 at the off node. Competent skilled players on both sides the off node will defend itself and the op will retreat, if the op toys forever with the two people, both nodes will still remain on your side, and your team still has 6 v 6 in mid and it is still equal.

 

Sadly warzones aren't all about equal skill, and there can be multiple heals, and incompetent guarders so it really does require good communication to ensure you are victorious. But in reality the operative can be dealt with. Though it's possible to be aware of cooldowns. Maybe a sorc was guarding and the op was able to force it to barrier and use a cc escape. The sorc knows this, the op knows this and if it were to return it may actually win this time and much quicker. Make it away to the team and maybe double guard the node *Which is much smarter to begin with* Until at least a 1 node victory is ensured.

Edited August 24, 2016 by VixenRawR

And sorry for the harsh words earlier in other threads.

 

It's fine, I am not always the nicest person. =) Everyone has their beef with other classes and have their preferences and certain irritations.

 

I usually take out my frustrations by tunneling certain players or classes. It's not always sorcs even though my biggest beef is with that class. If I find an op waiting for me to drop below 30% before attacking me I will make sure to kill them every time. =D You can find plenty of times for little 1 v 1 sparring, and tunneling while keeping a node safe.

 

And sometimes I don't care to win either. It can be quite obvious when your team is bested. Multi healers, and tanks running the ball in huttball. It's almost a no brainer. Between leaps, and sorc pulls and maybe a hidden stealth at a endzone they can score quickly. Your team may have no heals, stealth, or tanks. A pile of snipers, sins, and mercs dancing about hoping to survive. I make the best I can and usually if victory is impossible with current team, I find the next best objective. Find someone to tunnel.

Edited August 24, 2016 by VixenRawR

ops are op its just they have a stun lock you never get out even if there dps is low they stile kill you

 

also there very hard to kill good damage reduction good healing cloak very fast movement

 

thats why so many players play them atm

 

same as jugg a lvl 61 just kill 3 players in a row we try to lower his health but ea time his health was back to full some times we cant even damage him

 

and his damage was insane high

 

i play merc dps i must do good damage but how you kill some1 that can bring his health back to full ore ignore the damage we do to him

 

my healing do so 5k its crap compare to a jugg

even if my health drop to a point that my skill pop up and heal me back but even that is so very low that it dont matter to the damage he give me

 

just wanna say that some classes are a bit over powered

ops are op its just they have a stun lock you never get out even if there dps is low they stile kill you

 

also there very hard to kill good damage reduction good healing cloak very fast movement

 

omg! how many times do we have to say this? an op cannot stun lock you and our damage is crap compared to any other spec in the game. we have 1 hard stun. period. you did not get stunlocked/killed by an op, so stop saying you did. as for our damage reduction, the part that you don't seem to get, is that all of it is on the global cooldown, and has to be used skillfully, or else it is wasted. if i am rolling or refreshing kolto probe, i am not doing any of my weak damage.

Edited August 24, 2016 by sumquy