Where has there been Dev confirmation that Sliced parts were supposed to be shoehorned into everything? Given the sloppiness regarding the crafting revamp and 4.1 update it's very easy to assume they are getting included in recipes by accident/mistake and it seems to go against the stated revamp goals of:

Improve the quality of Crafted items, so that Crafting is a valid method to gear yourself.

Ease the barrier of entry, making Crafting easier to understand for our newer players.

In that no single character can gather/harvest all the parts needed to make 99% of their trade's products to "gear themselves" like they could pre-revamp and newer players needing at least 2 characters gathering/harvesting in order to have 1 viable crafter isn't simpler or easier to understand.

I'd like to see exactly where they said the sliced parts inclusion was on purpose and what kind of justification for it was used in light of the revamp's stated goals.

What specifically requires you to use sliced parts? There is a good chance is a bug if it is really everything, and should be reported on the bug forums.

Every Armormech and Synthweaver armor recipe skill 520+ uses Givin Hypercalculators, Advanced Versatile and Resistive 40 Armorings from those skills require Givin Hypercalculators and Siniteen Info-scrapers instead of the Vandinite, Zakuulian Durasteel or Charged Hypercloth and Zakuulian Silk from Underworld Trading.

Enhancements, relics, etc. It seems they were jammed into everything. I know Barrels have the wrong metals UT vs Investigation compounds and Hilts are using the Arms crafted components, so their recipes are bugged, but those advanced recipes currently have sliced parts replacing the proper TH/Investigation gems/compounds.

And so on, and so on, like that shampoo commercial.

AFAIK - no confirmation exists.

I've heard others put forth various hypothesis around the developer's supposed intentions, but I personally believe someone just screwed up the materials requirements and they haven't bothered to clean them up.

On the flip side though, the developers haven't been very engaged with us regarding the changes to crafting and all the various bugs (outside the glaring UI issue patched earlier today), so it could be by design.

Either way - its telling about their ability to communicate with us that we don't know which it is.

Eric,

Thanks for the update, it's nice to get a confirmation.

If you wouldn't mind relaying to the dev team a question -- are there any concerns about the lower value in artifact Underworld Metals, artifact Underworld Fabrics and artifact Researched Compounds?

Pre-4.0, those materials were used in a number of recipies. Post-4.0, those materials aren't used as much and have a lessened value.

This is particularly noteworthy with Durvalex, the grade 9 researched compound. Since non-moddable mainhand weapons do not work with the appearance designer, the gear that is crafted using that material has little desirability with the player base.

I'm not sure if this would be well-received or not, but perhaps the item modifications that require artifact-level slicing mats should ALSO require artifact mats normally used by that profession?

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the dev team and here is what I found out. With 4.0 it was changed that all Artifact mods now require Artifact quality Slicing materials. This was done to ensure the value of lower level Slicing materials across all Grades. Artifact quality mods and Artifact quality augments now have that same material cost.

 

In addition to this, all Artifact quality gear (Armor, Weapons, etc) now require a Prototype quality Slicing material. This was also done to bring value to all Grades of Prototype Slicing materials. The exception to this would be items that require exotic materials, such as rating 212 items.

 

Players can still craft all Prototype quality items without the need of any Slicing materials, however once a player decides to go for Artifact quality, they will need Slicing materials. For example, Prototype quality augments no longer require Slicing materials as they did in the past.

 

I hope that answers your question!

 

-eric

honestly eric, I know it's never gonna happen, but about this time I wish you guys would just get rid of slicing. it's always felt really tacked on.

but what about using armstech assembly components to craft artifice equipment? I haven't seen anything in the patch notes or any dev posts saying that was intended.

that's a confirmed bug.

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the dev team and here is what I found out. With 4.0 it was changed that all Artifact mods now require Artifact quality Slicing materials. This was done to ensure the value of lower level Slicing materials across all Grades. Artifact quality mods and Artifact quality augments now have that same material cost.

 

In addition to this, all Artifact quality gear (Armor, Weapons, etc) now require a Prototype quality Slicing material. This was also done to bring value to all Grades of Prototype Slicing materials. The exception to this would be items that require exotic materials, such as rating 212 items.

 

Players can still craft all Prototype quality items without the need of any Slicing materials, however once a player decides to go for Artifact quality, they will need Slicing materials. For example, Prototype quality augments no longer require Slicing materials as they did in the past.

 

I hope that answers your question!

 

-eric

So the team took away the ability to independently craft what your primary profession is suppose to craft in order to make low level junk from slicing more valuable? Because high level slicing mats are already needed for Augments and Augment kits.

I don't know of any other MMO that puts such a block on the primary gear aspect of their crafting system.

Please let the devs know that this is a really terrible change that hurts crafting, done in support of a crew skill that doesn't need any help making tons of credits.

Additionally it massively devalues the goods of the Crew Skills that actually create items by driving up the cost to make actually desirable items, especially when crystals drop like candy for vendor items.

Can you please get confirmation about if the 212+ crafted relics were intended to be bop?

From the "Known Issues" for 4.1 in the Bug Reports forum:

212, 216, and 220 Craftable Relics are Bind on Pickup instead of Bind on Equip.

So it's a bug. They're supposed to be Bind on Equip.

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the dev team and here is what I found out. With 4.0 it was changed that all Artifact mods now require Artifact quality Slicing materials. This was done to ensure the value of lower level Slicing materials across all Grades. Artifact quality mods and Artifact quality augments now have that same material cost.

 

In addition to this, all Artifact quality gear (Armor, Weapons, etc) now require a Prototype quality Slicing material. This was also done to bring value to all Grades of Prototype Slicing materials. The exception to this would be items that require exotic materials, such as rating 212 items.

 

Players can still craft all Prototype quality items without the need of any Slicing materials, however once a player decides to go for Artifact quality, they will need Slicing materials. For example, Prototype quality augments no longer require Slicing materials as they did in the past.

 

I hope that answers your question!

 

-eric

Not really because it not only makes little to no sense (slicing materials were as valued if not more valued than other mission materials AND slicing enabled collection of credit lockboxes), it isn't consistent (some purple items use slicing mats, some do not), and it requires players to have two mission skills plus one gathering skill to support one crafting skill (while game only allows three crew skill slots per character).

Prior to 4.0 (and still listed in the codex section), a player needed three crew skills (one crafting, one gathering, one mission) to be able to craft anything for their chosen crafting skill.

Now, a player wanting to craft has to take a crafting skill, two mission skills and a gathering skill, yet the game still only allows three skills per character, so to be self-sufficient for one crafting skill, a player needs two characters.

Not only that, but they also have to navigate confusing skill / quality parings which vary depending on the item they are creating, and sometimes even the item withing the type.

For example, crafting a purple (artifact) color crystal (e.g. blue, amethyst) sometimes requires blue and purple TH gems, archaeology materials (in the form of an assembly), and archaeology color crystals; yet sometimes (black-red, purple) requires blue TH gems, blue slicing materials, purple slicing materials, archaeology materials (assembly), and archaeology color crystals.

Crafting a purple (artifact) relic (non-exotic materials relics) requires blue and purple TH gems, blue slicing materials, and archaeology materials (assembly), yet the blue versions do not use blue slicing materials.

Crafting a purple (artifact) hilt requires blue TH gems, blue and purple slicing materials, and archaeology materials (assembly).

Crafting a purple dye module (artifact) requires blue TH gems, archaeologic materials (assembly), and archaeology color crystals.

So no longer does the quality of an item (purple / artifact) also designate the materials required (for artifice purple always equaled green archy mats, blue and purple TH mats), instead it depends on the quality and the item type, and in the case of color crystals, the individual item.

This sure seems more convoluted and confusing than what existed prior to 4.0, and as one of the stated goals with the 4.0 changes was to make crafting more streamlined and simple, I'd say this fails to support that objective.

It also doesn't meet the stated goal of balancing mission skills as slicing has always been very profitable given it allows players to pick up boxes of free credits in the open world where all other mission skills only have value in the items they are used to create, not to mention artifact slicing materials have historically sold at or above that of the other mission skills.

And since many of the most popular artifact items (modifications) no longer use the original paired mission skills (e.g. TH, UWT, Investigation), the only thing this change has done from a balance perspective is to make slicing even more attractive while devaluing the other mission skills while making crafting more convoluted and removing the ability of players to make self-sufficient crafting characters.

If the developers really wanted to make low level slicing materials more useful or valuable (even though slicing didn't need help as it could and can be leveled at a profit by picking up lockboxes and never running a parts mission), they could have taken a simpler route, one that didn't devalue the other mission skills while making crafting more convoluted and confusing.

Some examples include increasing the vendor values of leveling slicing materials (not as high as mission cost, but enough to recoup part of the cost), adding conquest items created using slicing materials, or adding decoration / stronghold / non-existing crafting items using slicing materials.

So the team took away the ability to independently craft what your primary profession is suppose to craft in order to make low level junk from slicing more valuable? Because high level slicing mats are already needed for Augments and Augment kits.

 

I don't know of any other MMO that puts such a block on the primary gear aspect of their crafting system.

If I catch the drift of this correctly, I know of other MMOs that require components crafted by other professions. FF XIV is one, IIRC.

Now, a player wanting to craft has to take a crafting skill, two mission skills and a gathering skill, yet the game still only allows three skills per character, so to be self-sufficient for one crafting skill, a player needs two characters.

I can understand how players want to be 100% self-sufficient. I know I do. But frankly, that contributes to a marketplace that isn't very vibrant. I know of games that require crafters to rely on other crafting professions (I just posted another reply that pointed at FF XIV). And, of course, from the beginning of the game I knew of players who started chars just to get more crew skills. In fact, due to the way schematics and other things worked, I think starting a char for slicing was quite a popular thing to do.

I'm not sure how I feel about all this. If we had a marketplace that worked as well as Eve Online's does (or did, when I played it many many years ago), I would probably all for making the professions even more interdependent than they are now. But SWTOR is still using the model of "loot drops give best equipment/need materials" for crafting, so I think it's not well-designed from the start.

Eric,

 

Thanks for the update, it's nice to get a confirmation.

 

If you wouldn't mind relaying to the dev team a question -- are there any concerns about the lower value in artifact Underworld Metals, artifact Underworld Fabrics and artifact Researched Compounds?

 

Pre-4.0, those materials were used in a number of recipies. Post-4.0, those materials aren't used as much and have a lessened value.

 

This is particularly noteworthy with Durvalex, the grade 9 researched compound. Since non-moddable mainhand weapons do not work with the appearance designer, the gear that is crafted using that material has little desirability with the player base.

 

I'm not sure if this would be well-received or not, but perhaps the item modifications that require artifact-level slicing mats should ALSO require artifact mats normally used by that profession?

Either that or add add a mk-4 pre-fab type and change the requirements for them so grade 1-8 materials are needed for mk1 through mk4. E.g., mk-1 needs grade 1 and 2, mk-2 needs 3 and 4, etc.. As you noted the artifact grade 1 research compounds and UT materials aren't really used for much right now. Some artifact armors, earpieces, weapons, etc.

I'm sure my cybertech can make some off of the earpieces. Not sure if my armstech can do much with the weapons.

There is probably already enough inherent value in slicing. It's the profession you can take to make straight credits when you don't want to mess with crafting.

De-valuing multiple blue/purple crafting materials from multiple other harvesting professions(and in the process forcing people to depend on GTN or a 2nd crafting toon to make their own profession's best items) in order to "prop up" the value of Slicing even further just doesn't make any sense IMO.

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the dev team and here is what I found out. With 4.0 it was changed that all Artifact mods now require Artifact quality Slicing materials. This was done to ensure the value of lower level Slicing materials across all Grades. Artifact quality mods and Artifact quality augments now have that same material cost.

 

In addition to this, all Artifact quality gear (Armor, Weapons, etc) now require a Prototype quality Slicing material. This was also done to bring value to all Grades of Prototype Slicing materials. The exception to this would be items that require exotic materials, such as rating 212 items.

 

Players can still craft all Prototype quality items without the need of any Slicing materials, however once a player decides to go for Artifact quality, they will need Slicing materials. For example, Prototype quality augments no longer require Slicing materials as they did in the past.

 

I hope that answers your question!

 

-eric

I can understand how players want to be 100% self-sufficient. I know I do. But frankly, that contributes to a marketplace that isn't very vibrant. I know of games that require crafters to rely on other crafting professions (I just posted another reply that pointed at FF XIV). And, of course, from the beginning of the game I knew of players who started chars just to get more crew skills. In fact, due to the way schematics and other things worked, I think starting a char for slicing was quite a popular thing to do.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about all this. If we had a marketplace that worked as well as Eve Online's does (or did, when I played it many many years ago), I would probably all for making the professions even more interdependent than they are now. But SWTOR is still using the model of "loot drops give best equipment/need materials" for crafting, so I think it's not well-designed from the start.

I don't have an issue with the concept of requiring materials from multiple skills such that a single character could not produce everything needed, though I also (having played games with those types of systems) have never felt the 'forced trading' type systems added real value - they just added an extra step / time sink to manage materials sourcing and trading.

I do have an issue with slicing materials being added to schematics in 4.0 as some sort of stated mission skill balancing effort using the assumption that slicing needed help because it was not as valuable as others.

In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

Slicing could and still can be leveled by picking up credit lockboxes, adding new credits to the game, while every other mission skill is a credit sink, and requires players to spend credits to run missions to level the skill.

Not only that, but historically slicing materials have held as much if not more value than other mission skill materials on the GTN (specifically at max skill level).

I just don't see how they figured a mission skill which can be leveled without cost while adding credits to the economy while generating materials that sell for as much if not more than other mission skill materials could need any help or balancing.

If anything going into 4.0, slicing needed a nerf with respect to being able to pick up credit lockboxes and generate credits so freely compared to every other skill which are effectively a credit sinks.

Eric,

 

Thanks for the update, it's nice to get a confirmation.

 

If you wouldn't mind relaying to the dev team a question -- are there any concerns about the lower value in artifact Underworld Metals, artifact Underworld Fabrics and artifact Researched Compounds?

 

Pre-4.0, those materials were used in a number of recipies. Post-4.0, those materials aren't used as much and have a lessened value.

 

This is particularly noteworthy with Durvalex, the grade 9 researched compound. Since non-moddable mainhand weapons do not work with the appearance designer, the gear that is crafted using that material has little desirability with the player base.

 

I'm not sure if this would be well-received or not, but perhaps the item modifications that require artifact-level slicing mats should ALSO require artifact mats normally used by that profession?

Slicing materials just need to be removed - while the appropriate matched mission skill materials need to be added back to all the artifact modifications.

I get wanting to find a compromise with the developers, but their reasoning behind adding slicing materials (while also not requiring the 'paired' mission materials) is flawed.

Slicing can be leveled at no cost (all others are credit sinks), can generate new credits (See all the guides on Yavin 4 lockbox farming), and can produce artifact materials which have as high or higher value than other mission skills.

Slicing doesn't need help - it can and always has stood firmly on its own.

Oh and full disclosure - I have dozens of characters with max skill slicers (no other mission skill comes close) - I know full well the value of slicing.

Edit to add: I wonder if their reasoning was driven by 'bad' metrics and analysis, such as someone calculating the percentage of materials from each mission skill sold to vendors or sitting in cargo bays unused, or counting the number of schematics in which the materials are used.

Because without taking into account the credit generating potential from lockboxes (along with the ability to level the skill at no cost) when evaluating slicing, it would be easy to conclude that slicing is the red-headed step child for materials skill, especially when looking at leveling materials.

However, I imagine slicing is one of the most popular crew skills, generates significant amounts of credits to the game from lockboxes, and generates max level materials with as much or more value as other mission skills.

It would be both funny and sad if part of the analysis took into account the popularity of slicing, with someone feeling they were really helping out 'all those poor slicers' in pushing slicing materials into every crew skill.

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the dev team and here is what I found out. With 4.0 it was changed that all Artifact mods now require Artifact quality Slicing materials. This was done to ensure the value of lower level Slicing materials across all Grades. Artifact quality mods and Artifact quality augments now have that same material cost.

 

In addition to this, all Artifact quality gear (Armor, Weapons, etc) now require a Prototype quality Slicing material. This was also done to bring value to all Grades of Prototype Slicing materials. The exception to this would be items that require exotic materials, such as rating 212 items.

 

Players can still craft all Prototype quality items without the need of any Slicing materials, however once a player decides to go for Artifact quality, they will need Slicing materials. For example, Prototype quality augments no longer require Slicing materials as they did in the past.

 

I hope that answers your question!

 

-eric

So how come rating 200 Barrels require an Underworld Metal (Vandite) instead of the Reaserched Metal (Glasteel) when all other barrel grades require Researched Materials?

Edit: My bad, I found this in the known errors thread.

Gosh, whoever revamped crafting in this patch must have done it late on a friday night after a few shots. It's been a total FUBAR hasn't it?

Seriously, you could have saved yourselves a lot of this pain if you actually put patches on the PTS.

*shakes head*

The problem the devs were trying to solve was not "slicing is useless."

The problem was "sliced tech parts, except of the highest grade, are useless." Only augments and augmentation kits used them, and the common wisdom was that augments before level cap were pointless...which is pretty much true, non-endgame augments are a credit sink not worth the effort. Which in turn meant that grade 1-10 sliced tech parts were also pointless. There was literally no reason to run a mission to get sliced tech parts that wasn't grade 11 in 3.X.

Oh and full disclosure - I have dozens of characters with max skill slicers (no other mission skill comes close) - I know full well the value of slicing.

Same here. Most of my (many) alts have slicing. And so long as the grade 8-9 conversions remain in place, I have them running 6 slicing missions each (2 rich grade 9, 2 bountiful grade 9, 1 rich grade 8, 1 bountiful grade 8).

I'm in pretty great shape as far as slicing mats go.

What I find unfortunate is my cargo-hold full of other artifact mats that are actually worth less than the cost to obtain. I mean, I can live with it (it's not like I'm running out of cargo space with the 9999 stack limit), I just find it silly that the historically most valuable artifact material (max-grade purple slicing mats) has been made even more valuable.

Based on Eric's post, the concern was that the mid-level slicing mats were worthless (something I would agree with -- who augments their gear before max level?). I just think their solution isn't the best one.

Based on Eric's post, the concern was that the mid-level slicing mats were worthless (something I would agree with -- who augments their gear before max level?). I just think their solution isn't the best one.

 

I agree mid-level slicing materials were worthless, but I don't think it was an issue that needed addressing.

A player leveling slicing could simply run lockbox missions (getting most credits back) or pick up lockboxes from the open world for skill points and free credits - no one has needed to run slicing parts missions to level the skill.

I also feel other solutions that don't devalue other mission skills would be better suited - such as adding items to crew skills to create conquest items from slicing materials, adding new decoration items / tokens crafted with slicing materials, adding augment slots to the leveling prototype gear that drops in places like heroics and FPs.