Guys, thats not even funny, HM fps supposed to be hard, right?

While doing the DvL HMs runs i found that most of them were nerfed bad or just so easy even with full team of DvL players.

Blood Hunt is a joke now, just tank and spank.

Cmon, up the HM fps so they will be challenging again.

P.S.

ffs return the normal deco chances for HM fp bosses

No...

here comes the noob

here comes the noob

Oh man, I'm so hurt by this, can we be friends and lovers?

No...

Care to explain why you don't want HM FP to be hard ?

I think they should be harder or that they even should introduce a new difficulty level where bosses have just more HP, do more damage and have tighter enrage so that people raiding NiM regularly can still enjoy a good challenge in a FP

I disagree, but for a different reason than just "no."

HM fp's drop 208 gear and a piece of 216 at the end.

SM ops drop 216 set piece tokens.

At the moment, even though HM fp's are nerfed, the SM ops are nerfed even more.

Before we go about fixing HM fp's could we do something about the current face-roll ops?

here comes the noob

A formular 1 racing car driver saying that a simple street is no challenge for him anymore - and then telling everyone else "you're a noob" ?

Care to explain why you don't want HM FP to be hard ?

 

I think they should be harder or that they even should introduce a new difficulty level where bosses have just more HP, do more damage and have tighter enrage so that people raiding NiM regularly can still enjoy a good challenge in a FP

Then introduce Nightmare difficulty level on its own separate GF so raiders can be happy.

Hard is relative. It's suppose to be hard relative from its Tactical counterpart. It's a stepping stone process, HM is good middle road difficulty for players that have mastered the tactical versions. Also, it's not hard to either of you because you probably have run them since release a billion times over - so naturally its not hard to you, but for those that are just cracking into the scene, newer players and older ones who are trying them, they present a decent enough challenge without it being ridiculously overbearing. Some of them are still really challenging to PUG groups, they are not all breezy like the OP is trying to paint. Some are straight forward, but I don't consider Blood Hunt a tank and spank or battle of rishi a cakewalk either, depths of manaan can still be a problem too. in PUG situations they still pose some issues.

HM's are still suppose to be pugable, they are not the NiM's of FP's , content so difficult that its reserved for those type of players.

As someone who does hm fp primarily through pugs please no. Things like blood hunt, rishi, manaan, and lost island are difficult enough to pug as is. Sure in a group of all guildies it's a breeze, but not everyone has that ability. I've completed the above mentioned ones maybe twice each with a pug. I heal or tank, btw, and the current game is not teaching levelling players to play their role or class anymore. This is massively obvious in pugs.

Perhaps what could have been done was to leave a few of the more difficult FPs out of the tactical pile and had them remain pure SM FPs. Ad make the HM versions of those a true challenge, but not part of the standard HM queue.

You used to be able to queue for KoS/LI as a separate queue. I always thought that made sense.

But - I doubt anything will ever change so /shrug.

Short-manning SM ops is the only thing close to NM FPs, and IMO more fun.

Perhaps what could have been done was to leave a few of the more difficult FPs out of the tactical pile and had them remain pure SM FPs. Ad make the HM versions of those a true challenge, but not part of the standard HM queue.

 

You used to be able to queue for KoS/LI as a separate queue. I always thought that made sense.

 

But - I doubt anything will ever change so /shrug.

 

Short-manning SM ops is the only thing close to NM FPs, and IMO more fun.

The problem with the old tier 2 HMFP model was that because it offered GF rewards (commendations/crystals) random players who were totally unequipped to handle the level of difficulty (both gear and skill) queued for them anyway.

The primary issue with group content in ANY MMO is that it becomes "easy mode" over time. This issue has come up in EVERY MMO at one point or another. Whether players overgear it, or "over-skill" it (meaning that they know exactly what is going to happen when and know exactly how to mitigate/avoid it) is irrelevant, what was difficult and challenging becomes a cakewalk over time.

To those wanting HMFPs to be harder, think back to when you were a new player doing that content for the first time...THAT is where, when, why, and how it should be challenging, not after the 50th time you have run it.

As it is impossible to "unskill" yourself, if you want a challenge in a HMFP, go in undergeared. Start at 186 and go down until you find what you are looking for.

The problem with the old tier 2 HMFP model was that because it offered GF rewards (commendations/crystals) random players who were totally unequipped to handle the level of difficulty (both gear and skill) queued for them anyway.

Sure this happened, but did those same players KEEP queueing for the Tier II flashpoints once they hit a brick wall?

I think most of them who thought they could (and got burned) dialed it back to the Tier I flashpoints until they got better gear and were more familiar with mechanics.

I think separating out the difficulty that way was a good idea, and it's a shame this concept wasn't re-introduced with 4.0 rescaling all of the content to level 65.

Guys, thats not even funny, HM fps supposed to be hard, right?

While doing the DvL HMs runs i found that most of them were nerfed bad or just so easy even with full team of DvL players.

Blood Hunt is a joke now, just tank and spank.

Cmon, up the HM fps so they will be challenging again.

 

P.S.

ffs return the normal deco chances for HM fp bosses

Are you kidding me?? I am now doing them for the 25x achievments and 1 out of 3 groups fails!! The other 2 attempts i mostly carry the group with excessive healing or good tank dps cause the people doing those simply suck!! The only time when you can make it till the end is if you get grouped with achievment hunters also, which have no problems with the HM fps.

The problem with the old tier 2 HMFP model was that because it offered GF rewards (commendations/crystals) random players who were totally unequipped to handle the level of difficulty (both gear and skill) queued for them anyway.

 

The primary issue with group content in ANY MMO is that it becomes "easy mode" over time. This issue has come up in EVERY MMO at one point or another. Whether players overgear it, or "over-skill" it (meaning that they know exactly what is going to happen when and know exactly how to mitigate/avoid it) is irrelevant, what was difficult and challenging becomes a cakewalk over time.

 

To those wanting HMFPs to be harder, think back to when you were a new player doing that content for the first time...THAT is where, when, why, and how it should be challenging, not after the 50th time you have run it.

 

As it is impossible to "unskill" yourself, if you want a challenge in a HMFP, go in undergeared. Start at 186 and go down until you find what you are looking for.

But being forced to "ungear" you should not be what you have to do to have challenge. I mean, when 4.0 dropped, I ran Lost Island through GF for the 1st time. I had done the FP once or twice before, but being 10 level over, it was not like I cared to learn tactics so it was totally new. I was healing and still had my ressurected gear (so I was undergeared) as all my group. The only problem we had was when trying to figure tactics out. It took us 2 or 3 pulls and it was done. We even one-shotted the bonus boss which is supposed to be a tight dps check. All that in 192...I'm not asking for HM FP to become NiM ops level, but as they're now, it's a cakewalk even for undergeared decent players.

I think it was initially just a separate weekly with Kaon, and it gave something like 7 black hole coms, pre group finder.

Yes, just looked at patch notes for 1.2

Kaon Under Siege has been removed from the mission [WEEKLY] Galactic Conflicts. It is now part of a new mission combined with Lost Island: [WEEKLY] Rakghoul Conflicts.

And GF came in 1.3 so you're right on both accounts.

Sure this happened, but did those same players KEEP queueing for the Tier II flashpoints once they hit a brick wall?

 

I think most of them who thought they could (and got burned) dialed it back to the Tier I flashpoints until they got better gear and were more familiar with mechanics.

 

I think separating out the difficulty that way was a good idea, and it's a shame this concept wasn't re-introduced with 4.0 rescaling all of the content to level 65.

I stopped doing the Tier II HMFPs because it happened all too often. I had the gear and the skill to do them but the frustration of being grouped with those who did not got too intense.

But being forced to "ungear" you should not be what you have to do to have challenge. I mean, when 4.0 dropped, I ran Lost Island through GF for the 1st time. I had done the FP once or twice before, but being 10 level over, it was not like I cared to learn tactics so it was totally new. I was healing and still had my ressurected gear (so I was undergeared) as all my group. The only problem we had was when trying to figure tactics out. It took us 2 or 3 pulls and it was done. We even one-shotted the bonus boss which is supposed to be a tight dps check. All that in 192...I'm not asking for HM FP to become NiM ops level, but as they're now, it's a cakewalk even for undergeared decent players.

Plain text rears its ugly head again...sorry I was being slightly facetious in that recommendation. I know that being undergeared will not make content a challenge since it is the mechanics and situational awareness that usually determines victory or failure. That being said, try it in 156

I stopped doing the Tier II HMFPs because it happened all too often. I had the gear and the skill to do them but the frustration of being grouped with those who did not got too intense.

I can understand that.

But what if there hadn't been two tiers of group finder queue? Many players would have dropped group the moment HM LI showed up.

At least with separate group finder queue tiers, players could decide not to run the more difficult flashpoints, yet still get the daily queue reward.

I'm not seeing the downside, here.

Plain text rears its ugly head again...sorry I was being slightly facetious in that recommendation. I know that being undergeared will not make content a challenge since it is the mechanics and situational awareness that usually determines victory or failure. That being said, try it in 156

Even that wont do much since HM FPs for whatever reason have a bolster.

I can understand that.

 

But what if there hadn't been two tiers of group finder queue? Many players would have dropped group the moment HM LI showed up.

 

At least with separate group finder queue tiers, players could decide not to run the more difficult flashpoints, yet still get the daily queue reward.

 

I'm not seeing the downside, here.

It happens now: players uncheck Blood Hunt as an option for GF. Sure they lose out on the daily reward for GF queuing but that is their choice. Or if they queue for all and get a "more difficult" FP they quit and deal with the deserter debuff

Even that wont do much since HM FPs for whatever reason have a bolster.

Well that's a different problem, and IMO HMFP bolster should be removed.

Well that's a different problem, and IMO HMFP bolster should be removed.

If they remove the bolster they need to change the minimum gear recommendation to requirement

If they remove the bolster they need to change the minimum gear recommendation to requirement

I do not disagree

It happens now: players uncheck Blood Hunt as an option for GF. Sure they lose out on the daily reward for GF queuing but that is their choice. Or if they queue for all and get a "more difficult" FP they quit and deal with the deserter debuff

Sure, that is what's happening now.

But why is this preferable to having two tiers? The concept of "this is more difficult than that" seems like a good one. I cannot speak for anyone else, but when I personally first got into endgame PvE, I ran the easier stuff first, then the more difficult stuff, and so on. It just seems really logical to me.

The "Tier" concept was also used to be applied to operations as well (until 2.0 came along). EV/KP was Tier 1. EC/TfB was Tier 2. The extremely clear message was "this other stuff is harder"

Of course, this is a moot point, it's not like arguing about it is going to change anything in the game.

I just don't understand why you think that "combining all flashpoints in a single group" is a better game design than "separating them into two groups based off difficulty".

I just don't understand why you think that "combining all flashpoints in a single group" is a better game design than "separating them into two groups based off difficulty".

Because I do not think it would solve the problem...One of two things will happen with a multi-tier system:

1. 99% of the population would queue for all tiers and let the chips fall where they may. resulting in players getting into more difficult content that do not belong.

2. That more difficult content is only done by a small segment of the population and they come here to complain about the queue times.