But having said that I'm still not a fan of the saboteur stuff. There should be a way to switch factions without turning your character into an evil, backstabbing snake who is lying to everyone. I don't want my characters to be in a position where I "feel guilty" about what they have to do; I just want them to be able to walk away from one faction and join the other.

I'm in the same boat here.

While the saboteur thing could fit my SI or IA, it's clearly not something my SW or BH would do, they'd both rather shoot you in the face or cut though it with a lighsaber than play the double agent and backstab you.

And above all, why would my BH want to be involved in this, she's a Mandalorian now, she never cared about the Empire to begin with, and she desn't care about the Republic either. And why would the Empire want her to "help" them, while it has always been clear that she doesn't even like the Empire.

My Jedi felt abandoned by his companions and the Republic after his carbonite awakening so he has vowed "no more Mr. Nice Guy", essentially becoming more hardened. My question is, have any of you chosen to support your opposite faction when starting Inflection Point?

I told Lana I was siding with the Empire (as a Jedi) and she said cool, but are you sure, you might have to put down some of your old contacts (paraphrasing)...like a warning. So now I am second guessing my decision. I backed out of the convo and thinking it over.

I know exactly what you mean. I haven't done it yet with my Trooper for the same reason. She sided against Malcolm on Iokath because she felt betrayed and didn't believe his true motives. So I don't know what to do with her because she wouldn't openly want to side with the Empire for real. I did go the saboteur route with my Sith and it just felt odd. The line where she says "the Republic has won me over" is false. It's not the Republic that won her over it's her husband and the only reason so that she doesn't lose him again! But the whole time it just felt very strange. The warning from Lana doesn't really do anything at all. On the Empire side of things as a saboteur you don't kill any Imperial characters. You are just there to sabotage and undermine their efforts. I would imagine the same goes for Republic characters playing that role.

I know exactly what you mean. I haven't done it yet with my Trooper for the same reason. She sided against Malcolm on Iokath because she felt betrayed and didn't believe his true motives. So I don't know what to do with her because she wouldn't openly want to side with the Empire for real. I did go the saboteur route with my Sith and it just felt odd. The line where she says "the Republic has won me over" is false. It's not the Republic that won her over it's her husband and the only reason so that she doesn't lose him again! But the whole time it just felt very strange. The warning from Lana doesn't really do anything at all. On the Empire side of things as a saboteur you don't kill any Imperial characters. You are just there to sabotage and undermine their efforts. I would imagine the same goes for Republic characters playing that role.

Yes but this is only the beginning of the Saboteur storyline, there is yet far more to come. You can't expect the entire storyline to be resolved at the very beginning of this new story instalment. It's going to develop and evolve as the story progresses. It has to start small and as the narrative develops into something bigger, then the Saboteur storyline grows in tandem. Surely that can't be a bad thing? If the entire Saboteur storyline was resolved already people would complain it was too short or too underdeveloped.

Yes but this is only the beginning of the Saboteur storyline, there is yet far more to come. You can't expect the entire storyline to be resolved at the very beginning of this new story instalment. It's going to develop and evolve as the story progresses. It has to start small and as the narrative develops into something bigger, then the Saboteur storyline grows in tandem. Surely that can't be a bad thing? If the entire Saboteur storyline was resolved already people would complain it was too short or too underdeveloped.

I wasn't saying that at all. I was answering the other poster's questions about what to expect. Obviously, I know there is more to come with the storyline and wasn't expecting it to all be resolved now.

I guess for characters like yours a more open statement of "hey, I am joining the Empire/Republic" would have suited them better. But I am absolutely convinced you'll get that opportunity in the future, because Charles Boyd said he has some really good stuff planned regarding the Saboteur storyline. He said that they might really go far with it storywise, in the sense that you might get a guilty conscience for being a saboteur irl for the things your character will have to do it really sounded promising!

 

As I said, this was only the beginning of the new storyline and it would be somewhat anticlimactic if you immediately could swap factions or nuke your original faction. It's good that they will build up to it! It will be an extra wait, sure, but that way they can make a really impactful storyline around it

 

Tbh I haven't been doing the Iokath dailies either. At one point I just have up on doing them weekly as they're just... a nope for me too xD the Iokath storyline itself was enjoyable but the rest of Iokath was a flop, sadly.

 

But Ossus seriously gives me Oricon vibes and that is, to date, my favourite dailies area to do. They really have executed the Ossus storyline excellently and the dailies simply don't get tedious for me. I am honestly doing them daily happily and once the devs fix the worldboss weekly bug, things will be even better

But if you are a saboteur doing your own factions dailies makes no sense. My agent supports the Republic so explain why she would do the dailies that harm the republic? One of the dailies have her destroying the farms, she would never do that. Yea I know its a game but that doesn't make sense. If you are a saboteur your dailies should not do anything to harm the faction you are trying to help. So the only solution I have for my agent at the moment is not to do the weeklies/dailies.

I know exactly what you mean. I haven't done it yet with my Trooper for the same reason. She sided against Malcolm on Iokath because she felt betrayed and didn't believe his true motives. So I don't know what to do with her because she wouldn't openly want to side with the Empire for real. I did go the saboteur route with my Sith and it just felt odd. The line where she says "the Republic has won me over" is false. It's not the Republic that won her over it's her husband and the only reason so that she doesn't lose him again! But the whole time it just felt very strange. The warning from Lana doesn't really do anything at all. On the Empire side of things as a saboteur you don't kill any Imperial characters. You are just there to sabotage and undermine their efforts. I would imagine the same goes for Republic characters playing that role.

Ah! So the story is written so that you actually act as a saboteur? I didn't realize that. I thought you just changed sides. Well, that makes it more intriguing then. Thanks for the reply.

Hah! A battlelord for the Jedi Order, a hero to the Republic playing turncoat. Makes me feel a little like Revan...well, a little.

Loved pretty much everything about Ossus. Finally putting Zakuul in the freaking rear view mirror at LAST. I'm just peeved now because my female JK needs to slog through another 10-12 boring chapters of it, then Iokath and 3 FP's before getting Doc back in her life...

Wasn't even the biggest Malgus fan before this, but I even enjoyed his role here. A little weird that he doesn't seem to care that my character merked him back on the Emperors fortress and left him in his current state, and weirder still that my diehard Imperial characters are so willing to once again work with a guy who manipulated them and betrayed the Empire, without even breathing a word about it. But hey, I'm cool with it. I can just pretend it was my Pub characters who killed Malgus xD Enjoyed the dynamic between Malgus and my Sith characters. A kind of mutual respect between old rivals vibe. You get the sense that he now fully knows the extent of your power, unlike before.

The game needs more of that, imo. Moments in cutscenes that make YOU look strong and powerful. They did SO many cutscenes during KOTFE making Arcann/Vaylin/Senya/Pretty much anyone who WASNT us look really cool in cutscenes while we spent our time standing there and getting force pushed away like an insect. My highlight of the whole story of KOTFE is fighting Arcann at Odessen in chapter 16, simply because they show me fighting him in a cool little cutscene part where my character looks dope as hell defeating him. What is so wrong about making us look powerful more often!? I'd love more big boss fights to end (after the in game battle) with a little cutscene showing the final blows to end the fight before the dialogue portion or the kill/spare options appear, or parts of cutscenes where I can show off some force power (which obviously could be replaced with a different action for non force sensitives). I mean even the pistol wielders Arcann fight scene at Odessen looks pretty dope!

Wonder if we'll get a Malgus/Satele rematch after all this time come 6.0

and weirder still that my diehard Imperial characters are so willing to once again work with a guy who manipulated them and betrayed the Empire, without even breathing a word about it.

Betrayed the Empire that was being run by an absentee, galaxy-eating psychopath that your imperial character killed?

That Empire?

Vitiate is the one that betrayed the Empire.

Betrayed the Empire that was being run by an absentee, galaxy-eating psychopath that your imperial character killed?

 

That Empire?

 

 

Vitiate is the one that betrayed the Empire.

Everything about that is wrong. At the time of his betrayal the Emperor was DEAD! The true leadership was the Dark Council (led by Marr), who still had the Empire and it's people's best wishes at heart for the most part. Marr didn't want to eat the galaxy and wasn't really a psychopath either. Not to mention Malgus's betrayal had little to do with being for/against the Emperor or his goals (since he was already "dead for now" anyways), it was about bringing more progressive ideals to the Sith. Can't say I disagree with his goals, but it was nevertheless a betrayal of the Empire at large. Which makes it difficult to buy that he'd be given such grand authority again so lightly. But, like I said, it doesn't bother me THAT much, in all honesty at this point I'm sure the Empire needs all the allies it can get, past disagreements or not. They're willing to take Pub characters who've done much worse against the Empire now after all lol.

Everything about that is wrong. At the time of his betrayal the Emperor was DEAD!

He wasn't dead. Only his vessel was destroyed.

The true leadership was the Dark Council (led by Marr), who still had the Empire and it's people's best wishes at heart for the most part.

Have you been playing the same game as me?

With the exception of Marr, the Dark Council spent the majority if it's time infighting and backstabbing. Their machinations were the direct cause of the Empire losing power during the events of the vanilla game. "The Empire and it's people's best wishes" were the LAST thing most of them had the slightest care about.

One of Malgus' goals was the eradication of the Dark Council, which would have resulted in a stronger Empire.

Edit: Malgus' only mistake was losing.

He wasn't dead. Only his vessel was destroyed.

 

Have you been playing the same game as me?

 

With the exception of Marr, the Dark Council spent the majority if it's time infighting and backstabbing. Their machinations were the direct cause of the Empire losing power during the events of the vanilla game. "The Empire and it's people's best wishes" were the LAST thing most of them had the slightest care about.

 

One of Malgus' goals was the eradication of the Dark Council, which would have resulted in a stronger Empire.

 

Edit: Malgus' only mistake was losing.

Nice cherry picking. I didn't mean he was dead permanently OBVIOUSLY as I had pointed out in the above reply that he was "dead for NOW". And he was no longer the official ruler of the Sith at that point anyways, he held no power, made no decisions and would not find them having any allegiance to him even upon his return.

The Council spent it's time infighting because when we begin the game the Emperor is "sleeping" or whatever and hasn't spoke to the Council in years, meaning he wasn't present to put down the infighting. As I made clear by saying the council was led by Marr (which we learn to be largely true in Makeb/SoR) he obviously had large amounts of control over how the Empire was run, having influence over most if not all sections of the Dark Council, and as is repeatedly shown, he is not as interested in random violence or "classic evil" behaviour as he is the health and wellbeing of the Empire and its people. He has no use for infighting and does not ever be shown condoning the killing of imperial soldiers or civilians (excluding traitors etc). How is he bad for the Empire? He is as good if not better than Malgus would be.

And the Dark Council being eradicated wouldn't necessarily make the Empire stronger, that's just conjecture. Taking the fancy seats away won't stop infighting or general Sith behaviour. Having a strong central leader to govern over the Council makes them stronger, as we know from the Emperor's pre-slumber times before the beginning of the game. The Empire was strong then because the leader was strong enough to keep the Council in check. And Marr was heading in that direction, same as Acina/Vowrawn ended up there, if Marr had lived it would 1000000% have been him.

Malgus's mistake was trying to grab all the power for himself. With his influence he could have pushed his ideals INSIDE the Empire without a betrayal. And likely been successful on things like alien recruitment once things got dicey in the war with both the Reps and Zakuul. But he wanted the big chair. When he hadn't even earned a Council seat yet! Laughable.

The Council spent it's time infighting because when we begin the game the Emperor is "sleeping" or whatever and hasn't spoke to the Council in years, meaning he wasn't present to put down the infighting.

As if the Sith weren’t infighting when he was present.

Infighting was encouraged as they would be too busy to form alliances against him.

And the Dark Council being eradicated wouldn't necessarily make the Empire stronger, that's just conjecture. Taking the fancy seats away won't stop infighting or general Sith behaviour.

Death Bane would like a word with you ...

I totally agree; I love the story so far. The only thing I'm concerned with is the idea that the Alliance will end. I don't see how this can conceivably happen; we as the Commander have built up too much respect and leadership with our followers for it to simply be over. Plus, my Inquisitor wouldn't do that: he wants the Alliance to be a force for peace, which is why he chose to betray the Empire and side with the Republic. He's seen the Empire cross too many lines, even though the Republic's self-righteousness disgusts him.

The Alliance can't end soon enough for me. The faster we can merge the the Alliance into the Empire or Republic the better, it's what my characters would have done in the first place. I never wanted to leave my original factions, I never wanted to be a separate characters. My Impside characters always wanted to remain completely loyal to the Empire and my Republic toons to the Republic. I was so happy therefore that in Nathema we got the choice to say "I am done with the Alliance" and that we can suggest merging the Alliance right away into Republic/Empire in Jedi Under Siege. It will be a glorious day when we finally will be able to do just that!

I simply play the story by the lore, my Sith characters pick mainly Dark Side options, my Jedi characters mainly Light Side. The non-forcies tend to have more variation, but the Smuggler and Trooper still end up at Light V and Imperial Agent and Bounty Hunter at Dark V. To me that's just how it's supposed to be according to the lore. Playing a LS Sith or DS Jedi would be incredibly cringy for me and completely break my immersion in the story.

It will be a glorious day when we finally will be able to do just that!

And for me this day will mark the last day any of my character will ever go beyond Nathema...

I'm also very likely to delete any of them who would already be past that point...

Giving an option to get rid of the Alliance while also giving an option to keep it ? Fine by me.

Forcing everyone back into their original faction without any option not to do it = bye bye all my toons...

Considering the state of the LIs, my BH, RT and IA are actually pretty likely to stop at the end of KOTET anyways

Giving an option to get rid of the Alliance while also giving an option to keep it ? Fine by me.

Which is why I sincerely hope that the devs will go along this route, because that way everyone can get what they want. But for me the most important thing is to be able to merge the Alliance with the Empire/Republic or disband it so that I might reclaim my place in either the Sith Empire or Galactic Republic. As long as I get to choose such an option in the future story content, I am happy with others having the choice to keep the Alliance.

As if the Sith weren’t infighting when he was present.

 

Infighting was encouraged as they would be too busy to form alliances against him.

 

Death Bane would like a word with you ...

You are such a cherry picker it's unbelievable. Last reply because you are clearly just looking to "win" this.

I never said infighting was NON-EXISTENT stop putting words in my mouth that I've never said. I said a strong leader like the Emperor pre-SWTOR would control SOME of the infighting, stopping it getting to a scale that seriously detriments the Empire. Council Members CLEARLY aren't going to openly murder eachother in brazen power grabs (Like Malgus) if a strong powerful Emperor can come out and punish them for it. Meaning Council infighting would simply return to how it was in the time before the main game, mostly political rivalries vying for the Emperors influence. It was pretty rare for Council members to openly war with eachother without the Emperor saying so back then if you've read ANY of the lore about the time before and at the start of the first war decades before this game.

What would Bane like to talk about? The rule of two? Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you think the Empire of SWTOR would do BETTER if they threw all but two Sith out the airlock? Absolutely ridiculous. They would be instantly crushed by the Jedi and the Pubs. INSTANTLY. Maybe the Sith themselves could survive and go into hiding the same as they eventually do, but the Empire would be dead and GONE. How are they going to defend their worlds from Jedi backed Republic forces with no force users of their own? Two Sith can't protect a Galactic Empire in these times of plentiful Jedi. Not to mention Banes idea didn't stop infighting or make any stronger of an Empire in the end. Vader was always looking for his route to take down Sidious and replace him. Dooku had Ventress. Ventress had Savage Opress. All were schemers and infighters. And that Empire they made still fell to a single Jedi and allowed the Republic to rise again so............ Yeah.

Bye now, have fun cherrypicking something out of context to make you feel like you "won"!

As if the Sith weren’t infighting when he was present.

 

Infighting was encouraged as they would be too busy to form alliances against him.

And any mention of the Sith allying to try to stop him was squelched, like the group of Sith who discovered his true motives and tried to stop him long before our storyline. IIRC what happened on Nathema was also very carefully erased from the records and all people knew was that the Force was corrupted there.

Feeding the infighting surely was effective. Marr and Darth Nox (if you're playing a SI) might have been working their tails off for the Empire, but between Baras trying to kill Vowrawn, getting Vengean killed and killing off his own resources to further his goals, Thanaton spending all his time trying to kill the SI, Jadus and Malgus doing what they did, and Arkous's subterfuge with the Revanites, they were wasting a lot of time and resources that could have been better used.

 

The part where Darth Malgus and the Sith Warrior massacre ranks of Jedi was especially well constructed. I loved the idea of two overpowered death-dealing Juggernauts fighting side by side as equals. I thought it was interesting how both Malgus and the Sith Warrior seem to share a genuine respect for one another. I really hope the developers expand on this by making a friendship/bromance between the two.

 

Haha. Maybe for you. My Sith Marauder was nothing but rude to him, prompting constant narrowing his eyes at me and saying "Hmmph." (Side note: Shoutout to the animation team for his expression work, with only half his face to work with... We can't see him frown, but we see the rage in his eyes when I am rude to him!) We are at best "frenemeies" haha. But, I think its' cool to read that had I not been so rude to him, he'd be more respectful in turn. Haha.

And for me this day will mark the last day any of my character will ever go beyond Nathema...

I'm also very likely to delete any of them who would already be past that point...

 

Giving an option to get rid of the Alliance while also giving an option to keep it ? Fine by me.

Forcing everyone back into their original faction without any option not to do it = bye bye all my toons...

Same with this, although I wouldn't delete any characters, just stop playing them through the story. As of right now my mains are all being held after Nathema, and they will remain there - even with that lovely romance scene trying to lure me in - until I know what is going to happen in 6.0. The alt who went through 5.10, and any other alts who follow her, will hold there as well.

If Lana gets killed off or the Alliance goes away, my characters just won't participate in that content (and yes, I know how a group of people feel about Lana, but it will be game breaking for some of us as much as other things are for you).

Same with this, although I wouldn't delete any characters, just stop playing them through the story. As of right now my mains are all being held after Nathema, and they will remain there - even with that lovely romance scene trying to lure me in - until I know what is going to happen in 6.0. If Lana gets killed off or the Alliance goes away, my characters just won't participate in that content (and yes, I know how a group of people feel about Lana, but it will be game breaking for some of us as much as other things are for you).

I only got my main, because i actually wanted to see if there was anything worthy with Theron and she's my only character romancing him and an old IA who was taking the dust to see the saboteur thing.

I'd not have any real problem deleting my main as i have 2 clones of her, one who's about to go through the Manaan FP and the second one who is still on the JK's chapter 1, i think she's on her way to Tatooine.

Well, we both know that while i'm not asking for a kill / exile option on her, i'm still in the camp who would love to see anyone else but her a little bit for a change (doesn't need to be long just for 1 or 2 missions before seeing her again, so that i may be happy to see her instead of thinking "damn Lana again"...). But i do understang your feelings, i think i feel the same about Theron as you do about Lana, and no more Theron + no more Alliance would be totaly game breakling for me as well.

I only got my main, because i actually wanted to see if there was anything worthy with Theron and she's my only character romancing him and an old IA who was taking the dust to see the saboteur thing.

 

I'd not have any real problem deleting my main as i have 2 clones of her, one who's about to go through the Manaan FP and the second one who is still on the JK's chapter 1, i think she's on her way to Tatooine.

 

Well, we both know that while i'm not asking for a kill / exile option on her, i'm still in the camp who would love to see anyone else but her a little bit for a change (doesn't need to be long just for 1 or 2 missions before seeing her again, so that i may be happy to see her instead of thinking "damn Lana again"...). But i do understang your feelings, i think i feel the same about Theron as you do about Lana, and no more Theron + no more Alliance would be totaly game breakling for me as well.

I have clones of my main too - but my main is still my *main* and I wouldn't want her to go anywhere. So ironically even though she's strongest, she's always held back as the "wait and see" character. Same with my main SI. She waits to see what will happen. I sent an alt of her through 5.10, and might send a few more alts that aren't my favorites, but the ones I care most about won't be going there. The same is true with any other patches, I'll be reading all of the Things We Can't Discuss and watching videos before my alts move on.

I do have a bunch of characters that aren't through SoR and KOTFE yet, so there are those to play.

It's a shame because I really love the Ossus environment and some of the decos that are dropping are amazing.

I am not going to get back into the debate on Lana, but I will say that I now very deeply regret working so hard to try to save Theron from getting a kill option.

Same with this, although I wouldn't delete any characters, just stop playing them through the story. As of right now my mains are all being held after Nathema, and they will remain there - even with that lovely romance scene trying to lure me in - until I know what is going to happen in 6.0. The alt who went through 5.10, and any other alts who follow her, will hold there as well.

 

If Lana gets killed off or the Alliance goes away, my characters just won't participate in that content (and yes, I know how a group of people feel about Lana, but it will be game breaking for some of us as much as other things are for you).

I think that's fair enough. It is my sincere hope that the Alliance remains at least for those of us who want it, and that the devs put a stop to kill options for LIs, no matter how loudly some players bay for blood. It was a great storytelling device to place Theron in the role of faux traitor, but his kill option after Nathema opened the worst kind of Pandora's box; it put Lana, the only surviving members of the original triumvirate (if we include Koth), right in the crosshairs of those furious over Theron's fate. No one's calmed down since. The lesson devs must learn from this is that LI's are incredibly important to a lot of players and must be treated accordingly, or all hell will break loose. To me that means not killing Lana off, and in future making sure the other LIs receive their due.

As for the Alliance, I have to believe that a clever writer can find a compromise that won't totally alienate the pro- or anti-Alliance factions. They made a good start of it with JUS. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that six months or a year from now the forums won't be a howling tsunami of rage, at least not over these issues.