What works for me might be the total opposite of what works for a ranked pvper, not because he's any better or his gear is more optimal but because we are doing fundamentally different things.

 

I expect that is what is happening in the argument between the other 2 - they have drastically different playstyles and what works for one of them would hinder the other.

Stop being so logical and sensible. I come here for drama and name-calling

reading comprehension....

in a premade setup (which pvp is balanced for, cause of 4vs4 arena) no one will ever go full tank. and of cause all skank tanks have a minimum of absorb stats...who would be so stupid to go in with zero.

full tank gear is about 50% of shield and absorb.

 

you get 20% shield for free and just need a minimum of absorb...than full crit/alacrity.

 

and how often you'll have 1vs of a full tank vs a skank tank. this situatuin will happen in 1 out of 10000 matches and event then, the skank wont loss in normal timeframe where someone would coming for help

No the problem is you are viewing it from a very narrow point of view to make it so you seem right by making it only 4v4 ranked premades while I am talking about WZ in general you know like 8v8 regs and pugs where survival is more important when defending points where calls for help often go unnoticed or people don't care Hell I have been able to hold a point for 4 mins against multiple dps with no help until after 4 mins under those types of situations which happen all the time in pug regs a skank would have never been able to hold out nearly that long against multiple dps.

All I'm getting from this thread is that instead of 6 tank sets (like I needed in 4.0) I now only need the 2 - full skank for when I want to go full snak, and I can reuse my PVE set for all other occassions.

Thank you for confirming.

full skank for when I want to go full snak...

What does "full snak" mean?

Currently, guard damage has to roll through the tank stats. Test it out. Guard a target in a place such as Outlaw's Den and have an enemy attack that target. Pop a DCD that increase defense or shield chance, and you will see it is affected.

 

I think the change is good, but we need some damage restored. Sure, we can last longer now, but we need some offense too.

<face Palm>

Sure why not lets have tanks out DPSing pure DPS builds I mean most PVP matches now a days are dominated by the hybrid classes as it is Merc, Sniper, Jug so why not ensure tanks get top DPS as well.

The trinity system is simple Tank | Heals| Dps

Tanks are suppose to absorb damage not do it! To do otherwise Breaks trinity!

Heals should heal dmg

DPS are your damage dealers high damage low survival I.e glass cannons

Hybrids break trinity they should never have been a damaging class they should have been a support class that did buff/debuffs. If you have to have a hybrid it's damage needs to be half that of pure DPS spec otherwise whats the point of playing glass cannon specs!

Question to the arena experts.

With tank changes, if you are playing against a healer tank combo, they have a dps Jugg and Merc, who do you focus first?

What’s the strategy?

Question to the arena experts.

 

With tank changes, if you are playing against a healer tank combo, they have a dps Jugg and Merc, who do you focus first?

 

What’s the strategy?

I'm no arena expert, but when I did play last season, you'd focus the DPS Jugg first in that scenario you described because like DPS PTs, they have no anti-focus DCD. Even with the fix to ED, you can still DPS through that. Obviously, if the tank is on his game, he'll guard swap to the DPS Jugg, but then you'd hard swap to the healer, then back to the DPS Jugg the moment he swaps guard back to the healer.

The next target after the DPS Jugg is down would likely be the healer, unless the tank is a Skank. If the tank is a Skank, you can tunnel him with sufficient DPS and good use of CC on the healer. Whichever one you kill first, the other would be next.

The Merc would be the hardest to tunnel and probably the last to kill because even if you manage to CC the healer and/or separate the tank at the right time, the Merc has sufficient anti-focus DCDs to keep himself alive until he can get healed/guarded.

If you're on a pressure team (AoE Trauma + elemental damage), it's even easier to beat that comp since the only one who's going to be outside the trauma AoE is the Merc.

I'm no arena expert, but when I did play last season, you'd focus the DPS Jugg first in that scenario you described because like DPS PTs, they have no anti-focus DCD. Even with the fix to ED, you can still DPS through that. Obviously, if the tank is on his game, he'll guard swap to the DPS Jugg, but then you'd hard swap to the healer, then back to the DPS Jugg the moment he swaps guard back to the healer.

 

The next target after the DPS Jugg is down would likely be the healer, unless the tank is a Skank. If the tank is a Skank, you can tunnel him with sufficient DPS and good use of CC on the healer. Whichever one you kill first, the other would be next.

 

The Merc would be the hardest to tunnel and probably the last to kill because even if you manage to CC the healer and/or separate the tank at the right time, the Merc has sufficient anti-focus DCDs to keep himself alive until he can get healed/guarded.

 

If you're on a pressure team (AoE Trauma + elemental damage), it's even easier to beat that comp since the only one who's going to be outside the trauma AoE is the Merc.

Thanks for the response, but I’m trying to find out what the deal is now since the tank changes.

They are now really hard to kill and if they have a healer it’s nealry impossible if your team isn’t on its game.

I’ve still been focusing the Jugg first and trying to seperate and control/stun the healer and tank. Then I’m seperating the tank and healer and focusing the healer down next. I’ve been leaving the tank till last. I’m just not sure wether to focus the Merc 3rd or last

Thanks for the response, but I’m trying to find out what the deal is now since the tank changes.

They are now really hard to kill and if they have a healer it’s nealry impossible if your team isn’t on its game.

I’ve still been focusing the Jugg first and trying to seperate and control/stun the healer and tank. Then I’m seperating the tank and healer and focusing the healer down next. I’ve been leaving the tank till last. I’m just not sure wether to focus the Merc 3rd or last

It mostly depends on who's still up on your team. But unless he's terrible or has blown any DCDs, it's better to kill the tank before the Merc in your scenario, simply because by the time you get their team down to two, the Merc isn't going to be able to keep the tank up with off-heals, but the tank would still be able to help keep the Merc alive with guard. It's a mathematics problem at that point. The only consideration would be if you lose someone on your team by then, such as your healer, in which case the Merc may need to die next to remove their remaining DPS from play. If both DPS on your team are still up, you could focus the Merc initially to get him to blow a DCD, then swap to the tank until he's dead, then swap back to the Merc and finish him off.

If I was going to play ranked seriously this season, I would have gone with a pressure comp, which I believe was the new meta. It's very hard to beat with a team that has any melee DPS (which are most teams). Someone with more experience than me might have more to add here.

It mostly depends on who's still up on your team. But unless he's terrible or has blown any DCDs, it's better to kill the tank before the Merc in your scenario, simply because by the time you get their team down to two, the Merc isn't going to be able to keep the tank up with off-heals, but the tank would still be able to help keep the Merc alive with guard. It's a mathematics problem at that point. The only consideration would be if you lose someone on your team by then, such as your healer, in which case the Merc may need to die next to remove their remaining DPS from play. If both DPS on your team are still up, you could focus the Merc initially to get him to blow a DCD, then swap to the tank until he's dead, then swap back to the Merc and finish him off.

 

If I was going to play ranked seriously this season, I would have gone with a pressure comp, which I believe was the new meta. It's very hard to beat with a team that has any melee DPS (which are most teams). Someone with more experience than me might have more to add here.

Cool, that makes sense. The hardest thing is getting my team to hard swap. Most don’t understand, so it’s left up to me to try and cc or seperate the right people. Half the time I have to cc or stun the least optimal choice because my team has decided to zero in on the other player, Makes me want to pull my hair out, especially when I end up using a cc on the one they aren’t focusing and then one of them swaps and breaks the cc. I’m actually finding it’s mostly the tanks on my team doing this.

Cool, that makes sense. The hardest thing is getting my team to hard swap. Most don’t understand, so it’s left up to me to try and cc or seperate the right people. Half the time I have to cc or stun the least optimal choice because my team has decided to zero in on the other player, Makes me want to pull my hair out, especially when I end up using a cc on the one they aren’t focusing and then one of them swaps and breaks the cc. I’m actually finding it’s mostly the tanks on my team doing this.

Your team has to be in VOIP to communicate, and the more consistent your team is (the same people are on it), and the more you play together, the less you'll need to communicate in voice chat. The best teams in Ranked all have this in common.

As for hard swap teams, like yours, my advice is to designate one of your DPS who knows how to prioritize targets and how to quickly recognize buffs such as Guard to be your focus target, then hotkey target of focus target so that when that person swaps targets, all he'll need to do is call out "swap" to cue the other DPS to hit that hotkey and you'll be on the same target with the click of a button. If you off click on another target to CC them, you can just hit that hotkey again to get right back on the focus target's target. This is essential for catching targets without Guard against a good tank who knows how to Guard swap well. If both DPS aren't on the same target, it can make it very difficult to win against a competent team.

<face Palm>

Sure why not lets have tanks out DPSing pure DPS builds I mean most PVP matches now a days are dominated by the hybrid classes as it is Merc, Sniper, Jug so why not ensure tanks get top DPS as well.

 

The trinity system is simple Tank | Heals| Dps

Tanks are suppose to absorb damage not do it! To do otherwise Breaks trinity!

Heals should heal dmg

DPS are your damage dealers high damage low survival I.e glass cannons

 

Hybrids break trinity they should never have been a damaging class they should have been a support class that did buff/debuffs. If you have to have a hybrid it's damage needs to be half that of pure DPS spec otherwise whats the point of playing glass cannon specs!

Have you actually rolled tank in tank gear? In full tank gear (warding b mods + shield/absorb enhancements amd high endurance armorings) i got 2.5-3k damage.

Skank gear (i.e. dps gear on tank spec) say about 5k.

Actual dps about 8k.

Tank damage is heavily gear dependant - before slaughtering aggro for PvE they must sort out the gear issue.

Hybrids break trinity they should never have been a damaging class they should have been a support class that did buff/debuffs. If you have to have a hybrid it's damage needs to be half that of pure DPS spec otherwise whats the point of playing glass cannon specs!

Tanks have to have some decent damage or else hard solo PVE content (which forces you to use a healer companion) will be impossible for them and also PVE group content will have to be reworked, and they deal approximately half the damage a DPS can deal to single targets if not less, mostly. The fact that their AOE is rotational makes them look somewhat on par with DPS who aren't good with AoE such as arsenals, and that is also in cases enough enemies don't mind taking these AOEs. In addition, the only reason they can get as "high" as they get is the flaw in bolster which compensates for their damage as if they have no tanky stats and compensates for their tanky stats as if they have no damage.

The thing they gotta fix is how tank's damage and defensive stats are bolstered. Bolster shouldn't improve tank damage in a wierd attempt to make it on par with real DPS while also boosting their defensiveness...

Thanks for the response, but I’m trying to find out what the deal is now since the tank changes.

I echo this interest. Really curious what ranked players are finding regarding the tank stat changes. Here's to hoping someone familiar with arenas and ranked gameplay steps in and offers their perspective.

I will post an unpopular opinion...

I've had enough of this skank tank joke. 90% of the people don't play skanks to tank, they play them to hide behind tank defenses and dmg reduction and to be able to DPS more easily. Yes, that's right, the majority of people are DPS-ing and Bioware needs to get it's ***** togeher and fix damn tank stats for PVP and tank gear should be the only option for a tank. Of course, they could equip dps gear, but it would damn useless.

Most of these tank wannabes would be instant gone...

Also, for the love of God, who was the genius who added guard to dps specs ? Please remove and let tanks do their job.

The reason skanks are often #1 on the scoreboard is due to their recent buff.

If you're attacking someone guarded by a skank 50% of your damage rolls against the Skank (entirely dps gear) equipped with a shield shielding 1 out every 4 attacks. Rolling an attack against 20% absorb, alongside of 51% DR and 20-25% defense. (5% accuracy debuff, riposte, blade dance).

That's without any dcds up or utility passives. So yes dps will do far less than normal considering the above doesnt even account for taunts either which reduce damage further.

I dont really agree with skanks being this good but that's how it is currently. I am slightly more survivable in full tank gear and find skank dpsing quite boring now. I only skank on my pub guardian since I cant be bothered double gearing tank gear which is ridiculously painful as a process now even if you're swapping legacy gear back and forth.

Bioware still hasn't made tanking viable and buffs skanks. While making tank gear very hard to get. So its a perfect storm which only reinforces skanking viability even after the previous slap on the wrist for their dps.

Bioware still hasn't made tanking viable and buffs skanks. While making tank gear very hard to get. So its a perfect storm which only reinforces skanking viability even after the previous slap on the wrist for their dps.

This is spot on.

While I'll give Bioware credit for taking the first step with fixing Shield, it fell way short of fixing the Skank issue. They still need to do the same for Absorb and Defense, and make tanking mods ("B" mods) more accessible. Then there's the Bolster issue someone else already mentioned, being able to Guard on a DPS spec (which isn't a Skank specific problem), and so on. Skanks are one of the reasons in a long list of reasons why I stopped PvPing a month ago. I'm tired of Bioware failing to address the issue once and for all, and instead, they make very short-sighted development decisions (e.g. nerfing tank damage) that did more to hurt legitimate tanks than it did to stop players from Skanking.

Sadly, based on their track record, I suspect this issue will persist until the game sunsets. I've lost all faith and confidence in them to effectively address these sorts of issues that plague PvP. Case in point, the increasing numbers of Ranked refugees who feel that deathmatching (which is appropriate in the Ranked format) to the exclusion of objectives is a valid playstyle in an objective-based WZ format. Instead, they stealth nerf the use of CC break while carrying the ball in Huttball matches, which only encourages players to ignore the ball and deathmatch. The only recourse left to me is to vote with my wallet and walk away. Now they can make bad development decisions without my money.

This is spot on.

 

While I'll give Bioware credit for taking the first step with fixing Shield, it fell way short of fixing the Skank issue. They still need to do the same for Absorb and Defense, and make tanking mods ("B" mods) more accessible. Then there's the Bolster issue someone else already mentioned, being able to Guard on a DPS spec (which isn't a Skank specific problem), and so on. Skanks are one of the reasons in a long list of reasons why I stopped PvPing a month ago. I'm tired of Bioware failing to address the issue once and for all, and instead, they make very short-sighted development decisions (e.g. nerfing tank damage) that did more to hurt legitimate tanks than it did to stop players from Skanking.

Well absorb is the % of a shielded attack you absorb, so the shield thing should help that too. Def rating needs looking at not just for PVP but for PVE too (as its currently stupid to run "optimized tanking mods" (i.e. 248 unlettered warding mods)).

Guard on dps spec im sort of meh on - I've used it to effect before, but against competent players its a good way to give them a 2 for 1. They can take it and the biggest advantage to me is that these squishy dunderheads can no longer "forget" to remove it.

I left swtor too, but it was the group changes that did it for me - i can't organize my guild (i dont care that we rarely get 6-8 of us in a match. I do care that i could not help organize the second group) and that the "rating" system always put us with total morons.

On the tank damage nerf, you're right - it was stupid to nerf damage without looking at the gear factor first.

 

Sadly, based on their track record, I suspect this issue will persist until the game sunsets. I've lost all faith and confidence in them to effectively address these sorts of issues that plague PvP. Case in point, the increasing numbers of Ranked refugees who feel that deathmatching (which is appropriate in the Ranked format) to the exclusion of objectives is a valid playstyle in an objective-based WZ format. Instead, they stealth nerf the use of CC break while carrying the ball in Huttball matches, which only encourages players to ignore the ball and deathmatch. The only recourse left to me is to vote with my wallet and walk away. Now they can make bad development decisions without my money.

This is, unfortunately, my opinion of the rest as well... sorry BW, you can't kill everything i ever enjoyed in the game and expect me to pay for it. And the depressing thing is - i wasnt even asking for anything new. I just wanted you to stop killing off what i did like every time i changed activities.

Killing 150 lowbie npcs on random planets isn't my idea of fun. I guess it is for some people.

I will post an unpopular opinion...

I agree with everything you said but this line. I don't believe this opinion is unpopular

It is very simple to test (on Iokath) that skanks are in fact already useless in nearly any possible way when they truly are fully dependant on their gear. The simple thing they need to do is fix bolster for people who are specced as tanks so that it doesn't boost their damage and crit beyond a certain number which is fairly lower than what DPS get. So skanks and tanks will have their damage capped at what their gear can give them, and that is truly not so much unless the enemy team are dumb enough to stack for AOEs (and honestly, if AOE is a viable measurement, I am surprised veng isn't considered OP).

Tanks are already quite viable with the shielding changes, and skanks will be quite unviable as far as their DPS if bolster doesn't help them compete because it would be far less than what any DPS has, and as far as their defensiveness is concerned, because it is far less than what tanks have.

I agree with everything you said but this line. I don't believe this opinion is unpopular

 

It is very simple to test (on Iokath) that skanks are in fact already useless in nearly any possible way when they truly are fully dependant on their gear. The simple thing they need to do is fix bolster for people who are specced as tanks so that it doesn't boost their damage and crit beyond a certain number which is fairly lower than what DPS get. So skanks and tanks will have their damage capped at what their gear can give them, and that is truly not so much unless the enemy team are dumb enough to stack for AOEs (and honestly, if AOE is a viable measurement, I am surprised veng isn't considered OP).

 

Tanks are already quite viable with the shielding changes, and skanks will be quite unviable as far as their DPS if bolster doesn't help them compete because it would be far less than what any DPS has, and as far as their defensiveness is concerned, because it is far less than what tanks have.

I consider my view unpopular based on what I read on the forums and I know that most people prefer uber skank tanks. I mean isn't it nice to be have extra dmg reduction and almost the same dps as a dps spec ? Regs are invaded my skanks and taking away this " luxury" won't make some of us happy.

Also, let's face it... A real tank does nothing in PVP. It's like playing goalkeeper in your schoolyard football games. Not many wanted that because it's "boooring"...

I consider my view unpopular based on what I read on the forums and I know that most people prefer uber skank tanks. I mean isn't it nice to be have extra dmg reduction and almost the same dps as a dps spec ? Regs are invaded my skanks and taking away this " luxury" won't make some of us happy.

 

Also, let's face it... A real tank does nothing in PVP. It's like playing goalkeeper in your schoolyard football games. Not many wanted that because it's "boooring"...

You can tag me down for the unpopular view vote, as I agree with you totally. Skank tanks are broken, have been for a long time. I understand why so many people do it, like you [and Kendra] said, a real tank in PVP is just sub par compared to a skank tank, so why bother [at last kendra still stuck with it, most players will just go skank tho].

That DPS specs are still able to guard and taunt only adds to the problems. I consider the taunt far worse than the guard, as a DPS guarding at least it taking on very greater risk to thier person [which in and of itself mitigates its use some, If a DPS guards me at his own risk, I appreciate it and will vote for them], but taunt, taunting has no risk, there is no reason not to use it on cool down, and mitigates tons of damage for the 7 other players on the taunter's team and is brain dead easy to do, takes no effort. Thats 30% less damage being taken by the 7 other member of the taunters team for 6 seconds. That's an insane amount of damage being mitigated over the course of a WZ. And than they still can do boatloads of DPS even more than a pure DPS class,which, is horse$%^# IMO, and have self heals too boot where the pure DPS [Mara] doesn't have any.

But yeah, let's have skank tanks shielding crits too now. Why shouldn't they have defenses like are used against Raid Bosses against other normal players, right?

I'm just getting back from a week + in-Game ban, haven't even played again since the ban was finished.

Now we have all this cross-faction horse%^#$# and non of the benefits of matchmaking promised. If we're not going to have balanced teams of healers/tanks, I wish they would undo the cross-faction, because that is just another reason not to feel like playing. Pops are no faster than they were before, now we just get stuck with pubs on out team who can't rely on their pre-mades and double-premades advantages to carry them and are stuck with only their own skill.

I love this game, even with it's faults, but I'm finding [shockingly] all these things are making me feel like I don't even want to play. I've been off in-game ban for 2 days now, haven't played even one WZ yet and I was fiending while on ban. Shocked myself.

Also, let's face it... A real tank does nothing in PVP. It's like playing goalkeeper in your schoolyard football games. Not many wanted that because it's "boooring"...

I had 2 very nice Novares in which the grand massacre in mid was really fun because both sides had 1 healer and 1 tank and both tried to cap when it was a smart thing to do. About a quarter of all my abilities were taunts and guardswaps and this is why are people died far less than theirs, and as an assassin I can also afford to AOE multiple cappers without putting my resource (force) at risk and without even breaking rotation (lacerating 4 enemies at once has a 76% chance to trigger auto-crit cooldown-reset shock). These were even before the shielding changes (haven't played since, yet. AC Odessey is a long game and demands attention).

Tanks who bother looking at the group panel to watch healths and guard accordingly (just as healers heal accordingly) will find that tanking is at least as fun as healing (because unlike healers, tanks still get to attack to be effective. They are the only role which has business targeting both friendlies and enemies in all situations without being off-roling or noobs). They also are great node guards which is a far closer similarity to "goalkeepers" than merely being a tank, and indeed many people lack the self-discipline to do it, but it is a necessary role and those who don't take it when required are considered kill farmers, which is a topic to discuss but isn't about tanks anymore.

At risk of reviving an unnecessary debate - i had a probably shirt lived return last night.

My initial guess was right, for my playstyle of prolonged stall wars, the shield changes are useful, with a noticeable damage drop (that doesn't matter for these prolonged stall wars). I was holding out 5 on 1 at north in an opg for almost an entire round at one point yesterday morning.