She panics in PvP and I have to hold her hand

So she plays PVP with one hand??

I've been saying this since 4.0 released and unskilled lowbies started popping into my high end LFG's. I've been complaining for years for them to put FP's back to being gated by level and I wouldn't even accept a LFG pop if there was someone below 50 (when 60 was cap). The same could be said for Ops even in Sesame Street Story Mode.

 

Bolster doesn't improve skills. That's on the player.

I think what they should've done instead of bolstering everybody to 70 for FPs is to leave the FPs at their actual level so that indeed you need to be of a certain level to do the FP and then apply level sync to the higher level characters.

It would've been much better to level sync players down than to bolster people up. Bolster is too punitive because yes you get the stats but not the skills or set bonuses that you get at max level.

Just restore the FPs to the original state and apply level sync. Would've been a much easier path and a better situation for players. There is nothing wrong with having to level up to get access to more FPs. You don't need em all at level 15.

This is why people are so bad at the game, they don’t know any rotations or how their abilities work. Planet sync and pve Bolster was the worst thing to happen to this game.

Level sync was the best thing to happen imo. It allows me to help, or get help, no matter what level I am, without penalties and it has made every previous planet relevant in some way again. It's not perfect, but it's better than what we had before, which was just the latest content being of any value. It can use some tweaks and additional options, but I don't believe any of that is worth the effort...too few people care about fighting trash.

People don't learn "rotations" leveling...PERIOD! They can't. They don't even have all their damn skills until they hit 66. This myth that players learn a rotation before they have all their skills is just ludicrous...and I keep seeing it posted as some sort of fact when it's demonstrably false.

Learning a "rotation" comes with wanting to improve your play at end game...not by leveling.

Level sync was the best thing to happen imo. It allows me to help, or get help, no matter what level I am, without penalties and it has made every previous planet relevant in some way again. It's not perfect, but it's better than what we had before, which was just the latest content being of any value. It can use some tweaks and additional options, but I don't believe any of that is worth the effort...too few people care about fighting trash.

 

People don't learn "rotations" leveling...PERIOD! They can't. They don't even have all their damn skills until they hit 66. This myth that players learn a rotation before they have all their skills is just ludicrous...and I keep seeing it posted as some sort of fact when it's demonstrably false.

 

Learning a "rotation" comes with wanting to improve your play at end game...not by leveling.

I am going to have to disagree with you. I learned my skills by leveling. Sure I got new ones and back at launch we were not at level 70 so we got our abilities sooner so we were able to use and learn them before. In addition, since my first and main character is a healer, it taught me how to heal properly, since back then the companions were not like they are now. You had to pay attention to what you were doing.

I am going to have to disagree with you. I learned my skills by leveling. Sure I got new ones and back at launch we were not at level 70 so we got our abilities sooner so we were able to use and learn them before.

That's fine, you can be wrong if you'd like. You learned skills that worked for the level you were, you didn't learn a working end game "rotation" because you couldn't because you didn't have your best skills yet...if leveling teaches you a rotation, you're doing it wrong...I'd still be using explosive round and hail of bolts on my mando...neither are used except situationally at end game, but both were a HUGE part of leveling.

I am going to have to disagree with you. I learned my skills by leveling. Sure I got new ones and back at launch we were not at level 70 so we got our abilities sooner so we were able to use and learn them before. In addition, since my first and main character is a healer, it taught me how to heal properly, since back then the companions were not like they are now. You had to pay attention to what you were doing.

I agree, and the bulk of abilities are handed out alout earlier then 50. Actually, your base 3or 4 abilities that proc a special attack are give out by 2nd planet. Also, dont I hear from a bunch of people on forums how they are 50 b4 leaving the first planet?

Not sure who it was, but the hit the nail on the head. You have to be WILLING TO LEARN, and some people arent, and then try to demand they change the game to suit their lack of ability, due to their own choice not to explore their character, and just faceroll through content with their god companion (because now they ALL are OP).

That's fine, you can be wrong if you'd like. You learned skills that worked for the level you were, you didn't learn a working end game "rotation" because you couldn't because you didn't have your best skills yet...if leveling teaches you a rotation, you're doing it wrong...I'd still be using explosive round and hail of bolts on my mando...neither are used except situationally at end game, but both were a HUGE part of leveling.

I dunno man, the rotation that I used on my very first toon as an Anni Mara during leveling, it taught me about resource management for instance. It wasn't by far an endgame rotation, but I got the basics down. At max level I just had to tweak a bit and pretty much everything was falling to it's place. And that is all it takes, the basics for SM OPS, no more no less. Is it too much to ask for? Or better yet expect from someone interested in SM OPS?

All in all, not reading AND understanding the skill tooltips and whatnot is a player issue, nerfing stuff won't help.

I dunno man, the rotation that I used on my very first toon as an Anni Mara during leveling, it taught me about resource management for instance. It wasn't by far an endgame rotation, but I got the basics down. At max level I just had to tweak a bit and pretty much everything was falling to it's place. And that is all it takes, the basics for SM OPS, no more no less. Is it too much to ask for? Or better yet expect from someone interested in SM OPS?

 

All in all, not reading AND understanding the skill tooltips and whatnot is a player issue, nerfing stuff won't help.

Yeah the problem is that if you don't learn the skills and rotations you don't really suffer any negative effects in the game for it. It just takes longer to kill enemies. In harder content and particularly harder group content it does make a difference but most of the game is so easy that you can just do whatever and win. Even in PvP you can win by losing.

People don't learn if there are no consequences to not learning it. And that's the state of the game. Trying to mix players who don't want to learn with those who do is where Bioware screwed up. SM Ops are a mix of the two and instead of it being the best of both worlds, it's when two worlds collide. Raiders don't like it when it's too easy and SM is too easy for them. Story players don't like it when it's more difficult and a number of boss encounters are too difficult for them. They might not get it, not want it or not able to do it (like disabilities). It's fine, I don't begrudge them a nice experience...problem is, neither group is getting a nice experience in SM Ops because of the mixed difficulty.

Learning a "rotation" comes with wanting to improve your play at end game...not by leveling.

This is absolutely true. Rotations only have value in end game content. No one wants to use a rotation to fight trash mobs. What you learn during leveling is what the abilities do and when it makes sense to apply them. Besides, no one "learns" rotations any more, they just copy them from someone who has posted them somewhere on the web. As far as story operations go, there are a couple that need a little tweaking but overall, they are probably in about the right place. Certainly not worth the effort involved in making them either easier or harder.

That's fine, you can be wrong if you'd like. You learned skills that worked for the level you were, you didn't learn a working end game "rotation" because you couldn't because you didn't have your best skills yet...if leveling teaches you a rotation, you're doing it wrong...I'd still be using explosive round and hail of bolts on my mando...neither are used except situationally at end game, but both were a HUGE part of leveling.

Yeah you learned your skills but not necessarily a rotation. I learned through leveling that Force Scream was a handy little CC on pesky healer mobs. I learned to tab target pretty quickly to go back and forth on mobs to use certain skills and such, but not really a rotation. Rotations are one of the reasons I don't like playing DPS in group content because they are so particular and hyper-focused to get it just right and maximized. I learned to be efficient with my skills through leveling but I also wanted to as an MMO vet. I think for non-vets they aren't concerned with being efficient while leveling.

They aren't even aware of it yet. There's usually an "ohhhh I get it" moment later.

I dunno man, the rotation that I used on my very first toon as an Anni Mara during leveling, it taught me about resource management for instance. It wasn't by far an endgame rotation, but I got the basics down. At max level I just had to tweak a bit and pretty much everything was falling to it's place. And that is all it takes, the basics for SM OPS, no more no less. Is it too much to ask for? Or better yet expect from someone interested in SM OPS?

 

All in all, not reading AND understanding the skill tooltips and whatnot is a player issue, nerfing stuff won't help.

To be fair, Maras/Sents are the most player skill intensive classes.. You had to quickly pick up on a rotation just to survive the first 30ish levels back in the day. Not so much anymore as I witnessed with the 111111 mara on Tat over the weekend. It's also the reason why they had (still have) the worst reputations as Leroy Jenkins. A mara/sent played by an unskilled player is a nightmare (or good comedy - I guess it depends on the situation).

Well, I intend to learn because I want to do the things without getting yelled at, lol. I'm mostly a story player but I'm not taking my main through anything past SoR until they bring back my fav comp. In the meantime I need something to do, it's not worth doing if I'm not going to learn to do it at least decently. With my physical limitations I'll never be MVP but I can at least avoid being the most worthless player. Also, I want to win some of those decos and achievements. Must explore, must expand, must collect the things! Besides, I like to challenge and push myself.

IMO the most important factor in success for things like Operations is wanting to perform well, and making the effort and spending the time to read guides, watch videos, practice (target dummies, solo / easy content), ask others, observe others, etc.

I've helped numerous players over the years who decided 'hey I want to do Ops but don't know how', and even though some were very poor and inexperienced players when we started (parsing is something I highly recommend doing with someone who can give you feedback, though don't be surprised if your first parses are far lower than what other are doing), the willingness to learn was all it took to help them become good players.

To be fair, Maras/Sents are the most player skill intensive classes.. You had to quickly pick up on a rotation just to survive the first 30ish levels back in the day. Not so much anymore as I witnessed with the 111111 mara on Tat over the weekend. It's also the reason why they had (still have) the worst reputations as Leroy Jenkins. A mara/sent played by an unskilled player is a nightmare (or good comedy - I guess it depends on the situation).

I feel my IQ drops 30 points every time I play a mara - something about wanting to just hit the leap button and smash things kicks in and I can't help myself.

I do recall having to work through some of the latter chapters on mine way back when, were a number of 'oh god I hope I can get this mob down before I die' moments.

They dont need more nerfs, they already nerf entry mechanics that people should for when they do HM to point people in in HM not know anything they should..

I still amazed by how people can screwup EV SM still, they nerf the mob amounts the nerf pylon puzzle and yet it still ****ed up by people same goes for all the other SM ops they all been nerfed to point people go in to hm think it cake walk..

I think what they should've done instead of bolstering everybody to 70 for FPs is to leave the FPs at their actual level so that indeed you need to be of a certain level to do the FP and then apply level sync to the higher level characters.

 

It would've been much better to level sync players down than to bolster people up. Bolster is too punitive because yes you get the stats but not the skills or set bonuses that you get at max level.

 

Just restore the FPs to the original state and apply level sync. Would've been a much easier path and a better situation for players. There is nothing wrong with having to level up to get access to more FPs. You don't need em all at level 15.

I could almost kiss you, but I'll settle for a high five. o/

Level sync was the best thing to happen imo. It allows me to help, or get help, no matter what level I am, without penalties and it has made every previous planet relevant in some way again. It's not perfect, but it's better than what we had before, which was just the latest content being of any value. It can use some tweaks and additional options, but I don't believe any of that is worth the effort...too few people care about fighting trash.

 

People don't learn "rotations" leveling...PERIOD! They can't. They don't even have all their damn skills until they hit 66. This myth that players learn a rotation before they have all their skills is just ludicrous...and I keep seeing it posted as some sort of fact when it's demonstrably false.

 

Learning a "rotation" comes with wanting to improve your play at end game...not by leveling.

I can agree to an extent with your sentiment. But they did flashpoints/operations backwards with bolster. They should have been done the same way: Level sync down to their level for all but MM's. Like back in the day when you had to be 50 (level cap) to even be able to do HM. And yes, I do realize you still have to be 50 for MM's. But I'm sure you get my meaning.

I'll have to disagree with you about rotations (more specifically - skill usage). I can't tell you how many times I've been in a group while tanking on a sin or using my hatred sin, and herding mobs into a bunch for AoE's only to have some sorc or BH that uses their knockback in their rotations send the mobs flying a split second before casting wither or death field. I even had a deception sin in a group last week that did the same thing. If players understood their skills, even while leveling, there wouldn't be as many complaints about them.

A mara/sent played by an unskilled player is a nightmare (or good comedy - I guess it depends on the situation).

Ain't that the truth.

I had to laugh at myself the other day. I was playing one of my mara's and doing Lights Out on Belsavis. While fighting one group, I hit Twin Saber Throw while facing the wrong direction. Oops! Aggro'd a nearby group.

I do love watching mara's/sents repeatedly jump on HK-47 in False Emperor. It makes my day.

I could almost kiss you, but I'll settle for a high five. o/

Hehe, I'll take the high five or else I'll get in trouble with my wife

I'd like to help people out a bit with the whole "learn your rotation, noob" thing. Let's try to avoid the condescension dripping from these posts. The point, however, is sound.

I'll admit for years I have stubbornly avoided tweaking anything I do in game based on what someone else tells me I should or shouldn't do. "It's my game, I'll play it the way I like."

This sort of attitude serves ok in solo story-mode and if you have a thick skin and you can tell off people telling you what to do if they think it's wrong in group content.

The easier Bioware made leveling and solo content and sub-endgame group content, the more it fed my overconfidence that what I was doing was right and I didn't need to change anything just to satisfy some "elitists" hell-bent on making everyone else conform to what they think is right.

For the last two years I've been trying out all of the AC's. I like the idea of having one of each so I can understand someone's viewpoint when they're asking for help. But some of them did not feel as natural to me as others, and I either deleted or shelved them out of frustration, especially when I was not killing things quickly despite the community proclaiming how good these classes were.

A good guildie who plays many classes finally, bluntly, pulled me aside and told me to change up how I was playing one of my dps operatives. I kept running out of resources and using AOE's improperly (I was using them to trigger other things, but did not realize there were better triggers at the time). He laid out a SIMPLE rotation of about five abilities to use in a certain order. I put the rotation in order on my quickbar and it was a night and day difference immediately. No longer running out of resources and stuff was dying much faster. The class became so much easier and fun to play. I very quickly was able to take her through to 300 ranks when I thought it was going to be just an endless slog.

A simple change of ability order and using them smartly was all it took to go from hating a class to loving it. I was now eager to use this on the class I've always felt the most frustrated with--mara/sent. Always felt slow, awkward, and subsequently boring due to lack of a breakthrough (also guilty of using only the cool-looking abilities ).

This time I opened a dulfy guide and chose the recommended utilities for PvE and put the suggested rotation in order on my quickbar. My sentinel is now my second favorite dps class and I feel like a whirlwind going through solo flashpoints and heroics, and I completed the Eternal Championship in record time (for me). I'm even putting my low influence comp on heals so she can't steal any dps from me.

I was able to return the favor for a guildie who was not doing much damage as a sorc (my favorite) and she also experienced a night and day difference once she incorporated three abilities she didn't even know she had.

If you really want to be able to go through a SM Operation without being a carried anchor or if you simply want to get through all that solo-grinding faster, please take the well-meaning advice and look at a rotation guide. There are more than one, I'm sure, but going down the path with any of them will really open up the game to you.

..snip

Good story.

I've been in groups, as I mentioned above where inq's/cons, bh's/mando's use their knockbacks in their rotations. If they use it strategically, like knocking mobs closer together or off a ledge, then there's no problem at all (I do that myself). But when they run into the middle of the group of mobs and "whoooosh" and they all go flying, I'll ask them to stop using their knockbacks. I even say "Please." I usually get attitude and more excessive knockbacks.

Some players have the attitude "Don't tell me how to play." Which is fine with me. But when that style of play causes problems for the rest of the group, something's got to give. So I started asking the first time, telling the second time, warning the third time, and vote kicking after the fourth time. About 2 or 3 out of 10 are receptive to instructions.

I even grouped with a level 70 the other day that had no idea he had an interrupt. Go figure.

I'm going to share a L2P story now.

My daughter used to play (she was 10 at the time). I would ask her, every now and then, if she needed help sorting her abilities, and she would say "No. I'm fine."

While playing with her once, I noticed her cylinder buff constantly changing (she was playing a merc). She would go down the line just clicking the abilities, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =. So I decided to check. Sure enough, she didn't organize her abilities. She left them where they popped up on the bar when she trained them. So every time she hit the 4, 5 and 6 her cylinder would change. I took a few minutes to organize them and explain them to her. After that her game improved dramatically.

So if a 10 year old can learn to play, there's no excuse for these people that refuse to listen when someone that's experienced gives them advice on how to play.

So she plays PVP with one hand??

She uses the force 😉

That's fine, you can be wrong if you'd like. You learned skills that worked for the level you were, you didn't learn a working end game "rotation" because you couldn't because you didn't have your best skills yet...if leveling teaches you a rotation, you're doing it wrong...I'd still be using explosive round and hail of bolts on my mando...neither are used except situationally at end game, but both were a HUGE part of leveling.

I actually didn’t mean a full end game rotation. Just learning what skill does what and perfecting it for your lvl is what’s needed. You ended up picking a lot of the rotation up yourself as you lvl’d.

While I can see the benefit of lvl sync in helping people, it had one major negative affect, it dumbed down the skill lvl because that content lvl was never meant to be played with all those extra abilities. On top of that, the game is now so stupidly easy, that people shouldn’t need help from higher end people. As a Sorc, you can basically spam FORCE STORM to lvl all the way to lvl 60. You don’t need to know any other ability.

Maybe the “idea” of lvl sync had merit, but the implementation and how it works in practice has contributed heavily to the dumbing down of the game and player skill. So I stand by my opinion that it was one of the worse things they could have done for the vanilla part of the game.

I keep suggesting that when you launch SWTOR the only thing that pops up is a giant "YOU WIN" button and when you click it the game shuts down.

 

It may as well be that at this point.

I caught up with some friends this weekend and they are into Pokémon. We went out to a busy district for dinner and walked around after. At the time I just thought we were walking off dinner and looking for desert. But it turns out there was a secondary objective, they were farming Pokémon rubbish too.

So I asked how because they didn’t have phones or anything out and then my friend showed me this little digital wrist band she had on and it was farming stuff without her input as we walked about. I asked what was the point or where was the enjoyment if you weren’t actually playing the game. I then got a crash course on Pokémon 🙄 (sorry I asked).

At the end of the discussion the first thing I thought of was your post about the pop up “YOU WIN”.

Honestly, why have a game if you aren’t “actually” playing it, but just letting it run on automatic. It’s the same with swtor, if all they want is a story and no challenge, read a book or watch a movie,

I feel my IQ drops 30 points every time I play a mara - something about wanting to just hit the leap button and smash things kicks in and I can't help myself. .

Stupidity and Maradom seem to compliment each other very well. I can attest to that heh

A good Mara never grows old =]

As a Sorc, you can basically spam FORCE STORM to lvl all the way to lvl 60. You don’t need to know any other ability.

lightning bolt seems to work too

So she plays PVP with one hand??

That's odds for a woman, yeah, for men only using one hand while online is second nature.

That's odds for a woman, yeah, for men only using one hand while online is second nature.