I ask this question a lot when dealing with lore-based questions and answers in general chat on Ebon Hawk. I truthfully feel that Satele Shan should never have been returned as Grand Master of the Jedi after the fall of Zakuul. Instead, she should have been Force Severed and Excommunicated. Here are my reasons:

1 - The Republic surrendered to Zakuul when they realized Zakuul was just too powerful, Satele did not. She refused to allow the Jedi to surrender and sent thousands of Jedi to their deaths against an enemy who was far too powerful to overcome. Her decisions led to the massacre of hundreds to thousands of remaining Jedi who fled the Jedi Temple of Tython when Zakuul blockaded and invaded the Temple. She only gave the command to flee when she had hardly any Jedi left to even command. Her entire Council was eliminated. She went into exile when she exhausted her Jedi Order's lives. How many Jedi were slaughtered? 90%, somewhere around there?

2 - Satele was not only dabbling with Darth Marr's ideas and convictions, she was also contemplating changing the Jedi Order to fit the "dark times", where as any Jedi would have held strong to Jedi convictions. "The Jedi Order must change.", as mentioned in the late Chapter of Knights of the Fallen Empire, is heresy enough to warrant her forever giving up her position as Grand Master forever. There is no way she would be fit to return as a Light Side Jedi to the Order.

3 - Even during the Jedi Purge in Star Wars Episode 3, and the events following thereafter until Episode 6, Luke was taught the traditional methods of the Jedi by Obi-wan and Yoda, which is what Satele should have been doing during her exile. She was secretly plotting to change the Jedi instead of continuing tradition.

Her past doesn't help her case either. She has a history of going against the Jedi Code in almost all aspects of her life. She fell in love. She had sex. She gave birth to a child. And yet she still returned to the Jedi Order and became Grand Master. Now this happens. I just don't see how she could get a THIRD CHANCE at being Grand Master after doing all this.

Thoughts?

I disagree with your first point. Satele helped lead the fight against Zakuul with Jedi who were much more capable of facing them than the average foot soldier. They were meant to defend against threats like this, to the best of their abilities, and not just hide on Tython while Zakuul attempts to ravage the entire galaxy. They died trying to defend the Republic when others could not. Sounds like a Jedi thing to do to me. Whether or not you agree, would anyone be satisfied if the Jedi Order lost under ten percent of its Order and then just sat around doing nothing for five years?

If you'd rather not adapt to the way the galaxy is being shaped and fail to realize that maybe the old ways weren't enough to defend the Republic, then sure, I guess you can be mad that Satele looked past how she was trained and confided with Marr, who had also saw the problems that the Sith faced. Revan knew both sides of the Force and looked beyond 'sides'. There was just the Force and how it was wielded.

For your third point, I think that was because the fall of the Jedi had nothing to do with an enemy wielding the Force in a way that surpassed their own. They were betrayed by the Clones they fought with, not beaten back by superior force users. There was nothing to really 'reflect' on other than that Palpatine played his hand perfectly, and no one could see it before it was too late.

Now, the last bit, with finding love and having a child, is something I could understand the outrage in. Satele getting to be Grandmaster again shows me that the Jedi Order lacked one with both the strength and the leadership to see them through the times they were in. Satele should never talk about following a Code to anyone, least of all our PC's, if we meet her son later on in the story.

I don't think Satele should be Grandmaster a third time, period. I believe she admitted during the story on Odessen that her time had passed, and she was not going to be involved any longer since the Jedi Order needed someone new to rebuild it. The most we get is her helping rebuild Coruscant, and Jace doesn't mention her at all on Iokath, so I assume she vanished again after that.

I ask this question a lot when dealing with lore-based questions and answers in general chat on Ebon Hawk. I truthfully feel that Satele Shan should never have been returned as Grand Master of the Jedi after the fall of Zakuul. Instead, she should have been Force Severed and Excommunicated. Here are my reasons:

I don't see anything official that suggest Satele took her old job back on the Jedi council. Besides that, an honest Jedi do not seek power but they are given the role by other jedi, they must learn to grow into it and temper their needs and expectation. I doubt the order, no matter the state it is in would just give Satele her old job as she put herself in self-imposed exiled in order to find hope to fix her mistakes.

She would likely return to the order as a master, but not of one of the council. Others would of taken that role over those 5 years. Who knows, maybe Kira and Nadia sit on the council now and one of the elder masters that has not been killed over the last 7 years has taken over the role of grand master.

Now in your scenario you assume she would get her old position back and the only way i would see that is by rebuilding the Jedi order on Tython once more, if would be her only chance to change the Jedi, slowly but surely. However her age may betray her position on the council before long as she's heading into her 70's. She will have a limited window which to make changes before giving up the position to someone younger.

1 - The Republic surrendered to Zakuul when they realized Zakuul was just too powerful, Satele did not. She refused to allow the Jedi to surrender and sent thousands of Jedi to their deaths against an enemy who was far too powerful to overcome. Her decisions led to the massacre of hundreds to thousands of remaining Jedi who fled the Jedi Temple of Tython when Zakuul blockaded and invaded the Temple. She only gave the command to flee when she had hardly any Jedi left to even command. Her entire Council was eliminated. She went into exile when she exhausted her Jedi Order's lives. How many Jedi were slaughtered? 90%, somewhere around there?

she went into self imposed exile, she felt the weight of her actions and in order to face her past she must confront her future and allow others to decide the fate of the galaxy. Hence helping the outlander put down the eternal empire and save the galaxy once more. Her time has come and gone, just teaching the new generation of Jedi and helping them understand that no matter how badly mistaken one can be about the role they were given, there is always the chance to atone for that mistake by helping others.

2 - Satele was not only dabbling with Darth Marr's ideas and convictions, she was also contemplating changing the Jedi Order to fit the "dark times", where as any Jedi would have held strong to Jedi convictions. "The Jedi Order must change.", as mentioned in the late Chapter of Knights of the Fallen Empire, is heresy enough to warrant her forever giving up her position as Grand Master forever. There is no way she would be fit to return as a Light Side Jedi to the Order.

That could mean anything about the Jedi order changing, i mean the Jedi are known to be ignorant about the Sith for example and yet they are taught that ignorance is a dark trait, because it leads to arrogance and bad choices. What Satele has learned from Darth Marr is something that would make the Jedi stronger, by embracing change instead of accepting stagnation. Ironically the Jedi has a dark element already in it, so i can't see what you mean heresy.

The only true way to eliminate the darkness in the order is by shining a light into areas the Jedi willing want to ignore like the Sith. Just remember that the Sith are a Jedi mistake and due to Jedi pride, they refuse to accept the monster they ultimately created and action taken since. However they can defeat it by learning about the Sith and embracing some of the better parts of the sith values, stuff that would give the Jedi a little more room to work in, it would in effect dismantle the Sith as a seperate force wielding order. Acknowleding the Sith are the missing half of the Jedi order and apologising for all of it could do a long way to removing the monster of the order's past.

So Satele learned a few things about the Sith, however finding a balance in the force and learning to use it as power herself, it would make the Jedi more stronger without completely sacrificing what they are.

3 - Even during the Jedi Purge in Star Wars Episode 3, and the events following thereafter until Episode 6, Luke was taught the traditional methods of the Jedi by Obi-wan and Yoda, which is what Satele should have been doing during her exile. She was secretly plotting to change the Jedi instead of continuing tradition.

Luke was never fully taught the ways of the Jedi and the Force. He may have been a Jedi but a lot of the teachings that make up a jedi were lost and all Luke had to go on is Yoda's word and the affirmation of Obiwan through the force. Luke was far more flamboyant than a lot of traditional Jedi as well. The chances are that he will faulter and make some large mistakes in teaching himself more of the Jedi ways and teaching others, assuming he did at all.

Luke didn't have an order around him or other jedi, so using Luke as an example in a completely different situation where he was the one being taught almost blind. Satele had decades of experience and she knew that something had to change sooner or later.

Her past doesn't help her case either. She has a history of going against the Jedi Code in almost all aspects of her life. She fell in love. She had sex. She gave birth to a child. And yet she still returned to the Jedi Order and became Grand Master. Now this happens. I just don't see how she could get a THIRD CHANCE at being Grand Master after doing all this.

 

Thoughts?

A lot of what you stated can be argued away. As for her life and giving into temptation of using her body? the Shan family have a long standing problem with their female force using family members ignoring some advice and had children anyway.

A person who doesn't know about love and life clearly doesn't know about life in general, so how can one teach others about something they don't know? That is ignorance, something the Jedi tell their younglings and Padawans never to fall into. But they are also taught about not forming emotional attachments as well.

so in other words female jedi can have children, but they can not have any connection to the child or the person they were with on that night and the act itself. so long as there isn't anything that would make the female jedi feel for any of it, she can follow the jedi code and not violate any of their values and beliefs in the process.

Always when people talk about the Jedi and emotions and stuff, I am minded to think of the Lords in the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Like the Jedi, the Lords rejected their emotions, refused to let them "flow", and thereby restricted the *short term* power available to them.

The reasons why are different between the two scenarios. We all have an understanding (not necessarily the *same* understanding ) of why the Jedi do this, but for the Lords it is their fear of losing control of their emotions, of giving in to "despair" as the ancient Lord Kevin had done, and destroying the world.

Spoilers follow, but I can't really tell it without them, and they aren't SWTOR spoilers.

They are losing because their foes, notably the ur-viles, do not have such a (self-imposed) limitation. Well, they are losing until their chief, Lord Mhoram, discovers the solution. The solution is to concentrate not on suppressing the emotions, but on controlling them, limiting their impact, and so on. Do not say, "I must not use the power that resides in my emotions because I might lose control of them and it." Say, rather, "I will not lose control of them and their power, but I will use them to defeat that which is evil and that which would destroy the world.

Her past doesn't help her case either. She has a history of going against the Jedi Code in almost all aspects of her life. She fell in love. She had sex. She gave birth to a child. And yet she still returned to the Jedi Order and became Grand Master. Now this happens. I just don't see how she could get a THIRD CHANCE at being Grand Master after doing all this.

 

Thoughts?

WHICH Jedi Code? While I think Satele was a horrible person for what she did to Theron when he was born in the name of her own pride, arrogance and selfishness, the Green Jedi code allows for love, marriage and family.

Satele, as well as a few other Council members, should have been removed from the Order a long time ago.

I disagree emphatically. The Jedi are in service to good; and in the face of an unimaginable evil, the Jedi's duty is to give their lives to protect the innocent. Satele's error was that she fled -- that was her shame .She did not stand and fight like the others; and that is, partly, why she exiled herself.

The Order 66 is totally different from the Zakuulan domination of the Galaxy. The Jedi was blight-sighted by the Dark Side (Pally and Pleguis tipped the balance of the force towards the dark side -- read the Darth Pleguis), and used the Jedi's clone army against them whereas , the knights of Zakuul were neither light nor dark side users, they just used the force (kinda like the voss).

The Jedi teaches about balance but do not understand it themselves. Good cannot reign forever and neither can bad; there has to be an equilibrium.

Satele did not turn to the dark side but she realized that she needs to understand the force in its entirety in order to devise a way to defeat this new enemy. Darth Marr was Satele's Apprentice and Satele was Marr's Apprentice. They both realize that their dogmatic view of the force was what caused them to fail.

As for Satele having a child, she did what she had to in order to remain true to the Jedi code. By distancing herself from the child, she removed the threat of falling to the dark side.

As for Grandmaster of the Order... Satele would have to resume the position until someone else more suitable comes along...

I disagree emphatically. The Jedi are in service to good; and in the face of an unimaginable evil, the Jedi's duty is to give their lives to protect the innocent. Satele's error was that she fled -- that was her shame .She did not stand and fight like the others; and that is, partly, why she exiled herself.

This.

Satele's failing was that she gave into despair, a major 'don't' for Jedi as that can lead to the dark side. Not surprisingly, Satele also took a slightly dark (if not dark side) turn. Instead of actively working to rescue the galaxy from Zakuul and it's tyrannical despot, she chose to live like a hermit and wallow in that despair while other Jedi were still in the fight (including potentially, the Outlander). She not only abandoned the Republic or the galaxy at large, but her fellow Jedi as well.

I have to partially agree with the OP however that she's no longer Grand Master material. Personally I think it would be interesting within the story if the Consular became Grand Master, at least for light side versions. The Consular is also a member of the Jedi High Council and as such a potential candidate, if their alignment fits.

I ask this question a lot when dealing with lore-based questions and answers in general chat on Ebon Hawk. I truthfully feel that Satele Shan should never have been returned as Grand Master of the Jedi after the fall of Zakuul. Instead, she should have been Force Severed and Excommunicated. Here are my reasons:

 

1 - The Republic surrendered to Zakuul when they realized Zakuul was just too powerful, Satele did not. She refused to allow the Jedi to surrender and sent thousands of Jedi to their deaths against an enemy who was far too powerful to overcome. Her decisions led to the massacre of hundreds to thousands of remaining Jedi who fled the Jedi Temple of Tython when Zakuul blockaded and invaded the Temple. She only gave the command to flee when she had hardly any Jedi left to even command. Her entire Council was eliminated. She went into exile when she exhausted her Jedi Order's lives. How many Jedi were slaughtered? 90%, somewhere around there?

 

2 - Satele was not only dabbling with Darth Marr's ideas and convictions, she was also contemplating changing the Jedi Order to fit the "dark times", where as any Jedi would have held strong to Jedi convictions. "The Jedi Order must change.", as mentioned in the late Chapter of Knights of the Fallen Empire, is heresy enough to warrant her forever giving up her position as Grand Master forever. There is no way she would be fit to return as a Light Side Jedi to the Order.

 

3 - Even during the Jedi Purge in Star Wars Episode 3, and the events following thereafter until Episode 6, Luke was taught the traditional methods of the Jedi by Obi-wan and Yoda, which is what Satele should have been doing during her exile. She was secretly plotting to change the Jedi instead of continuing tradition.

 

Her past doesn't help her case either. She has a history of going against the Jedi Code in almost all aspects of her life. She fell in love. She had sex. She gave birth to a child. And yet she still returned to the Jedi Order and became Grand Master. Now this happens. I just don't see how she could get a THIRD CHANCE at being Grand Master after doing all this.

 

Thoughts?

1) The Jedi are in service to the Republic, that does not mean they won't do things outside the Republic's wishes. You really think a Jedi is going to stand by and let innocent families be slaughtered, if they were right there in front of a Havok Squad that was ordered to wipe out a whole Imperial, no combatants, farm town, for instance?

No. They're stepping in. They're going against that Republic order. If they're LSed anyways.

Just as Satele Shan did what needed to be done to save the galaxy from Revan in SoR.

Not only that, you act as if the Jedi wouldn't have agreed with her. Most would have agreed with her.

2) Many Jedi say the order must change. I believe it's an option for at least the Consular to say to Satele and it wasn't even a dark side chat option.

Also, the Jedi are all about returning to the Light. Though I don't think she ever left the light. She made choices. Choices that don't have to be considered dark side.

3) Reading the books, a lot of what Luke learned was taken from refound Jedi teachings and stuff. Luke was basically on his own and had to make a new Jedi Order. One that he could help make better than the last incarnation of the Order, which has been shown to change many times through out the ages, while keeping some of the same teachings.

As for Satele and her past. I think she get's to much flack for Theron. She for sure gets to much flack for getting in a romance with Malcolm.

Every Jedi says "Don't show emotion." Every Jedi admits, they have emotion. They all get attached. They all fail at this one aspect of the Order. However, the no attachments rule has more to do with the ease at which one can fall to the dark side, especially in their line of work, if something happens to that attachment.

Face it, Jedi don't tend to lead peaceful lives. They put themselves into danger. What does that danger lead to? Putting their family, friends (<---which btw is an attachment and every Jedi has friends), loved ones into danger, as those against the Jedi can easily use them against the Jedi.

So, back to point, Satele grew close to Malcolm. The she had sex (which btw is not against the Jedi code) and got pregnant (again, if sex isn't against the jedi code, then getting pregnant wouldn't be either).

Okay, so she couldn't/wouldn't keep Theron. Happens all the time. Yes, I agree, she should have told Malcolm about the baby. However, as Malcolm has shown, he likely wouldn't have been this great dad. He'd be that stereotypical military father, where the military always comes first.

Not only that, a lot of what's wrong with Theron is his own fault. Satele abandonment issues? That's on him. He grew up with an adoptive parent who loved him (which is another Jedi gaining an attachment) who he loved, said was his father, but then still gets the whole mommy and daddy issue? Stereotypical orphan story of "Oh! You're my real parent! Until I have an issue, then you're not and I feel abandoned."

Sorry, no a lot of Theron's issues are on him. He didn't even know who his real parents are until much later, then goes on a whole "Whoa is me." kick. Nevermind that unlike other adopted children, he got to find his birth parents and get to know them, one of which who showed regret at giving him up (she was young) who wanted a chance at getting to know him, which is what he seems to want, until he gets it, then it's "Poor me!"

His dad? Republic first, but hey, great to have you son, if you fall in line and do what I say.

Then there's the whole being hurt over his own lack of force ability, which is not Satele's fault. It wasn't Zho's fault. I wouldn't say it was his own fault either, it just was.

Now that all said, I don't see her going back to being the Grand Master. She's basically Qui Gon. A Master who has different views on how things should be, but still believes in the Jedi. Being a Jedi never meant towing the line and believing they shouldn't change. Many Jedi over the centuries have thought they should change. The Jedi being a big group as it is, does change, however, like all governments (and the Jedi is a form of government) the gears turn, but they turn slowly.

 

Her past doesn't help her case either. She has a history of going against the Jedi Code in almost all aspects of her life. She fell in love. She had sex. She gave birth to a child. And yet she still returned to the Jedi Order and became Grand Master. Now this happens. I just don't see how she could get a THIRD CHANCE at being Grand Master after doing all this.

 

Thoughts?

If you do the Consular story line you'll find out that having children isn't actual against the code, you interact with the daughter of a Jedi master who is herself a Jedi, and when your Padawan talks to you about unwanted advances from another companion you tell her to tell him to undergo the councle's vetting process for potential mates. Also if you're a female consular and chose to romance Felix he even asks about it and you are able to truthful reply that so long as the Jedi in question is trusted to maintain their commitment to the Light and their duty and their partner has been approved relationships are not in fact forbidden for Jedi.

First, to pitch in on the relationship discussion: The Old Republic era is extremely inconsistent about when the "no romance, no family, no attachments" rule got started, but it seems to have gone from acceptable to frowned upon and heavily controlled (See JK Kira romance) between the Exar Kun era and SWTOR, and was only outright forbidden much later.

Back to Satele, when my Gunslinger did the Zakuul arc and Satele was talking about how the Jedi were faced with more powerful force users, I got the choice to point out that I, a force-blind quasi-criminal with no special training, had been massacring Knights of Zakuul left and right. Her (rather evasive) answer was that she wasn't referring to the standard Knights. And unless the game expects me to believe that Arcann and Thexan alone wiped out the entire Jedi Order, that was a pretty obvious attempt at dodging the question. This sort of calls into question whether the Jedi were actually overpowered, or just outmaneuvered.

Regardless, having your connection to the Force severed is a pretty harsh punishment, and a bit over-the-top, even if Satele's bad decision-making got the Order destroyed before she ran off to go camping in a forest. I don't exactly see the Jedi welcoming her back with open arms after all of that, but I don't think they'd punish her, either. It could actually be interesting if that came up in the next expansion and the Outlander gets a choice between sticking up for her or agreeing that she's lost it. Personally, I more felt bad for what she'd been reduced to, since pre-Zakuul, she came across as a competent and wise Jedi, and when you talk to her on Odessen, she's at best beaten and depressed, and probably not in the best mental state.

Another thing to remember: No matter how reasonable Darth Marr was in life, he's a Sith, and spending lots of time around Sith spirits is not known for its positive effects on your mental health either.

And while I'll concede that Revan also pursued some kind of middle path, by the time he was doing that he'd more than gone off the deep end (again), so he's not exactly a model of how Jedi should act. What's been established is that while the Force is more complex than just two "sides" per se, you do have to approach it with some kind of ideology or conviction to use it properly. Deviate too far from the one your side uses, and you aren't really a Jedi or a Sith anymore.

As for Satele having a child, she did what she had to in order to remain true to the Jedi code. By distancing herself from the child, she removed the threat of falling to the dark side.

 

As for Grandmaster of the Order... Satele would have to resume the position until someone else more suitable comes along...

There's a BIG difference between 'distancing herself' and abandoning the child (which she did).

Also, Satele herself was NEVER 'suitable' to lead anything.

There's a BIG difference between 'distancing herself' and abandoning the child (which she did).

Also, Satele herself was NEVER 'suitable' to lead anything.

Obviously you never read the book on why she decided to give up Theron; and if you did, your understanding is woefully lacking.

It's war. Satele was a major player; she single-handedly turned the tides of battle on Alderaan. She foresaw that her enemies would come for her child and she and Jace would do everything to protect him. She realized she'd turn to the dark side and so she decided that Jace couldn't know about it and she would leave him in Master Zhou's care. Theron was not abandoned and Zhou certainly loved him and protected him.

Satele was a force to be reckoned with even earning the respect of Darth Marr whom she constantly bumped heads with on the battle field. To earn a battle lord's respect, as a Jedi, is something to brag about. The Jedi order did well under Satele, up until Ziost. How was she any different from the other Grandmasters?

Yoda was told about the chips in the clones and did nothing. he knew Anakin was wrestling with the Dark Side, he knew the dark side surround Palpatine and that palpatine had an unhealthy interest in Anakin but did nothing. He too exiled himself on Doogoba, and he too trained a lone apprentice while in exile... so... ermmmm.... I do not follow your logic.

First, to pitch in on the relationship discussion: The Old Republic era is extremely inconsistent about when the "no romance, no family, no attachments" rule got started, but it seems to have gone from acceptable to frowned upon and heavily controlled (See JK Kira romance) between the Exar Kun era and SWTOR, and was only outright forbidden much later.

That's probably a result of the fact that when the Old Republic era was first conceived there was no rule against romance. But after the Prequels were made, Kotor and the games that followed tried to pattern their setting more closely on the movies than the comics they were based on, so there is a certain amount of inconsistency that came with trying to tie two different ideas for what the old Jedi Order was like together.

While satele shan isnt a very good jedi.

Force severed is going to far.

Force severing someone is like ripping out someone's nerves system.

You are denying them all sences.

It is only used on the truly dangerous.

Those who simply cannont be allowed access to the force.

Exiled from the jedi order?

Sure.

Force severed?

No.

Valkurion is the only charater in star wars the old republic that deserve suchs a fate.

Even the worst actions sith and jedi commit in this game doesnt deserve force severing.

I cant stress this enough.

Force severing is a fate worse then death.

It shoud never be used unless there is no other way.

Obviously you never read the book on why she decided to give up Theron; and if you did, your understanding is woefully lacking.

I DID read it. You're the one that doesn't seem to understand it.

She was selfish and arrogant, concerned ONLY about her station and appearances, rather than the welfare of her son. She didn't 'give him up', she abandoned him to an old Jedi that had no idea how to raise a child and denied Theron the RIGHT to know who is father was and denied Jace his right to know he had a son.

Satele is nothing but egotistical and self centered, only caring about staying on the pedestal the Jedi place themselves on.

I DID read it. You're the one that doesn't seem to understand it.

She was selfish and arrogant, concerned ONLY about her station and appearances, rather than the welfare of her son. She didn't 'give him up', she abandoned him to an old Jedi that had no idea how to raise a child and denied Theron the RIGHT to know who is father was and denied Jace his right to know he had a son.

Satele is nothing but egotistical and self centered, only caring about staying on the pedestal the Jedi place themselves on.

Wait. So instead of keeping a child she had no idea on how to raise, you hold her in contempt for giving the child to someone else who didn't know?

Other than the basics, what exactly does one need to know? Not to mention it sounds like Zho did a good job.

Agreed, Malcolm should have known, but wasn't part of the problem, he had a dark side?

No one ever complains that no one told Anakin he had children.

Not to mention, it's not like most parents don't have themselves on some sort of pedestal. If it's not "My job!" it's "I'm better because I'm full time parent!" or even "How could you abandon your job just because of a child?" from others.

Everything I've seen of Malcolm leads me to believe he would have not only been a terrible dad, he'd be one of those terrible military dads.

Well, judging from your response, I believe, my esteemed colleges can be the judge of who provides a more convincing argument of Satele's motivations for giving up Theron.

She was selfish and aggrogant, concerned ONLY about her station and appearances, rather than the welfare of her son.

I would very much like to know how you arrived at such a conclusion. If your above statement is correct, then it is an indictment on the entire Jedi Order who elected her to be Grandmaster. I am pretty Sure Eldon Ax's observation of Satele directly contradicts yours. Furthermore, it was out to concern for her son why she thought it best to have him raised in secret. What about Theron led you to believe that Master Zhou did not take good care of him. Theron spoke highly of Zhou. Additionally, Satele knew that if Jace knew she was pregnant, he would not have allowed her to do what she did and we are right back where we started.... she was afraid she would turn to the dark side because of it.

Satele is nothing but egotistical and self centered, only caring about staying on the pedestal the Jedi place themselves on.

You have offered no evidence of her past actions that supports your preposition; and its incompatible with her exiling herself on Odessen.

Your opinion is flawed, but you are entitled to it, nonetheless.

what happened to the Jedi was not Satele's fault. The Empire and Republic have been at each other's throat for decades, and much of the Jedi and Dark Council were already dead. By the time the war on Corellia ended. Jaric Kaeden, and Orgus DIn were Dead. Tol Braga, Syo Bakarn, Warren Sedoru, and Bela Kiwiks were out of commission. That only leave Satele and the Basen'thor on the council, and assuming the Hero of Tython is the outlander, he would have been frozen in Carbonite for 5 years. Who was supposed to fight the Eternal Empire?

We all know there is no such thing as "countless Jedi."

Who is left to excommunicate Satele or server her from the force, pray tell?

I DID read it. You're the one that doesn't seem to understand it.

She was selfish and arrogant, concerned ONLY about her station and appearances, rather than the welfare of her son. She didn't 'give him up', she abandoned him to an old Jedi that had no idea how to raise a child and denied Theron the RIGHT to know who is father was and denied Jace his right to know he had a son.

Satele is nothing but egotistical and self centered, only caring about staying on the pedestal the Jedi place themselves on.

A Jedi does not seek arrogance and selfishness, Satele of all people has the unique position of knowing how alluring it is to fall for these. Unlike Sith Master Jun Seros (), Satele most certainly hasn't gone to the trouble of deliberately being a hypocrite about her motivations.

Satele had to give up Theron because a jedi isn't allowed attachments, especially personal and emotional and also because her and Malcom's jobs don't afford any room for children. What happened if Satele did look after her child, got depressed about looking after this child on her own, thought about suicide and then had to take anti-depressants? it would mess with her head and she could end up doing something terrible with her force powers.

And then what if theron was murdered before her eyes as a child, she had such warm love her her son and he was killed by a Sith who taunted her so much so that she lost control of her emotions which were very raw at that point. What would you do in that position as a jedi? saying she "abandoned" Theron would be missing the point because the Jedi would of never allowed it to happen, they would make sure Theron was taken care of.

I have a relative who is an adult now, when she was 2 years old she was taken into care, she had a rocky start to her time in the system, bouncing between places, her mother and step father, then the carer and potential foster parents. It got to her at one point but she was settled with this family and developed over time. she's now a young adult, married and has a child of her own. I read all the notes and reports of her time in the system. so put it like this in Theron's position, he got lucky he didn't know his father and mother when he was young because that would of caused a lot of problems for him as a toddler.

Now he is his own man, he learned of his parents by himself and although his relationship with his father was intiially rocky, it got slightly better, but i do sense some resentment but i don't think thats for Jace, but rather that he needed time to process understand the reason why he was given up an what his parents thoughts were at the time. With Satele there is a distant emotional bond there, she does get concerned for Theron, but i sense she has a tight control over that part, at least on the surface, underneath i bet she is a mess not sure on Theron or herself in a lot of ways. i suspect she needs a bit of guidance on her own thoughts. It doesn't mean she has forgotten her duty as a Jedi though.

I don't think Satele is at all self-centered otherwise she would of been brandishing a red color crystal in her saber demanding the death of anyone who hurt her son.

There are the scenes on SoR and then there is the holos she has of Theron when he was younger.

If she did anything wrong, it was not telling Jace.

Theron himself isn't much better. He grew up without both of his parents, considers Zho to have been a great father, but then gets upset about Jace and Satele? To my knowledge, he didn't grow up knowing either one was his parent.

The problem with the OP's question and the implications made by other posts in this thread is that a lot of it is going to be based on KotFE's wretched Chapter 12 "Visions in the Dark", unquestionably the worst bit of plot, character, and design in the entire game.

It seems that in their desire to emulate Empire Strikes Back with their story (something at least one of the writers has admitted), they felt the need to have a chapter devoted to unlocking the Force's mysteries while having a wise and sagely Master hold your hand along the way, much like Luke's time of learning on Dagobah.

Unfortunately, when they sat down to come up with it, all we ended up with was the swtor equivalent of "covfefe".

It made no sense, either in context of KotFE's story, or in context of all other lore to do with the force, both in canon and legends continuities.

So I have a hard time judging what "should" or should not happen to a character based on something that awfully written or characterized.

The problem with the OP's question and the implications made by other posts in this thread is that a lot of it is going to be based on KotFE's wretched Chapter 12 "Visions in the Dark", unquestionably the worst bit of plot, character, and design in the entire game.

 

It seems that in their desire to emulate Empire Strikes Back with their story (something at least one of the writers has admitted), they felt the need to have a chapter devoted to unlocking the Force's mysteries while having a wise and sagely Master hold your hand along the way, much like Luke's time of learning on Dagobah.

 

Unfortunately, when they sat down to come up with it, all we ended up with was the swtor equivalent of "covfefe".

 

It made no sense, either in context of KotFE's story, or in context of all other lore to do with the force, both in canon and legends continuities.

 

So I have a hard time judging what "should" or should not happen to a character based on something that awfully written or characterized.

Personally, I think that since everything both Satele and Marr say leads down Valkorion's path and none of it ever comes up again, even the new weapon, I headcanon that it was all a hallucination created by Valkorion.

Unfortunately, when they sat down to come up with it, all we ended up with was the swtor equivalent of "covfefe

how dare you lol:D

Personally, I think that since everything both Satele and Marr say leads down Valkorion's path and none of it ever comes up again, even the new weapon, I headcanon that it was all a hallucination created by Valkorion.

That's actually what I was expecting them to do, but then I realized that if that were the case, Bioware was basically breaking the 4th wall at the end of the 9th chapter when they show Marr and Satele off in the distance on Odessan watching the Alliance build their base and Marr says "It's too bad so many of them will have to die".

Maybe in the next xpac, they'll just have the PC wake up one day and realize everything in KotFE and Kotet was just a bad dream. lol