its imposible playing versus this ship. bit so muh hard.

 

es imposible el daño que mete esa nave, si no quereis romper las GSF nerfear las putas gunships de una vez, hay gente que deja de jugar por que se encuentra nada mas que gunships y esto parece call of duty y los campers. soy subscriptor y exijo que las nerfeeis

It's not impossible to play against that ship, you just don't know how yet.

 

Usually I'd try to explain, but this time I just wait until you calmed down and stopped the insulting.

Arguing that 'the battlescout is more OP' and 'learn to fight against gunships'

in 5...4...3...

 

Edit: oops i was a little bit late

Edited January 26, 2016 by Bolo_Yeung

Go play on Red Eclipse, Imp side. Bust out your Mangler. See how powerful you feel when a team of 10 or so Flashfires decide to spit superheated plasmatic death all over your face and serve up rockets for dessert.

 

NERF THE FLASHFIRES!

 

Go play on Harbinger, either side. Bust out your gunship. Watch some team field six or eight or ten bombers, while your side flails around like they're having a severe allergic reaction to shooting things.

 

NERF THE BOMBERS!

 

Go play on JC when they have a Novadive Only event, and all the good pilots on the server are pubside but you thought the event was the day before that so it didn't cross your mind. Bust out your gunship. Watch as twelve Novadives zip around like very dangerous bugs you can't hit that swarm onto nodes before you're halfway there. See how OP you feel in your gunship then.

 

NERF NOVADIVES!!!

 

Learn to play against gunships.

 

Learn to play against bombers.

 

Learn to play against scouts.

 

Don't worry about strike fighters.

 

That's how you roll in GSF.

 

Despon

Edited January 27, 2016 by caederon

Well, gunships are best newb-scar®ing ship. New people can live with their ship being teared to shreds with sound of lasers firing and missile alarm - someone just got close to them, outsmarted and killed. This is acceptable . Suddenly exploding - or being crippled with no engine power and slowed / regen locked - THEN exploding without any chance to fight back - is considered being 'unfair'

 

And face it - scout swarm have hard counter - using bombers + gunships. Gunship/bomber ball does not have a 'hard' counter, even pure GS will do better than pure scouts with exception maybe for highest level pilots. "Maybe" is the key word.

 

PS. In all my flights in last 2 weeks on RE I didnt see any match with more than 5 battlescouts on one side...and in close matches it tended to be GS-heavy. So yes, I claim that the T1 GS is the most OPed ship.

PS. In all my flights in last 2 weeks on RE I didnt see any match with more than 5 battlescouts on one side...and in close matches it tended to be GS-heavy. So yes, I claim that the T1 GS is the most OPed ship.

 

Not going to rehash the "gunships are OP" thing, it's been beaten to death, and I'm well aware of your thoughts on that subject (as described, among other places, in one of my all-time favorite threads). Just wanted to add that my TRE experience has been completely different from yours, and the same as Despon's (in fact, we played a couple games together over there just today). T2 scouts are all over TRE; no other server I've played on is in the same zip code. And while you may not see a lot of games with more than 5 of them (though I've seen several, I'll take a screenie next time): make no mistake - 5 Flashfires is a LOT in your average 8v8, especially if they're remotely competent.

 

Coordinated team play still rules, and in that case, a GS may come across as OP. But otherwise, against that kind of opposition, gunships get eaten alive.

Edited January 27, 2016 by MaximilianPower

Sigh...

In short: 5 gunships in one team - that happens pretty often, especially on TDM. 5 scouts in one team - rarely happens. Usually in the matches where enemy is much weaker...

In close matches GS/bomber comnbo dominates the gameplay (scouts can hold their own in domination, since sat humping gives much opportunities to break the LoS, but in TDM... as I said before, GS/bomber ball is a certain doom for scout swarm. There is no 'certain doom' tactic AGAINST this ball ).

 

But regarding pure 'gs vs scouts' scenario - Good coordination of both teams will shift the favor toward scouts (it is pretty easy to cover friends with 15k range weapon that cripple on hit, striking a massive simultaneous attack with scouts without voice is rather doomed).

 

Don't worry about strike fighters.

 

This made me sad.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Greezt

Uncoordinated gunship wall > uncoordinated scout swarm. They back off to the spawn and only have to deal with a scout or two at a time.

Coordinated scout swarm > uncoordinated gunship wall. Gunships can't just set up and snipe.

Edited January 27, 2016 by ALaggyGrunt

I too find the gunship the worst part of GSF, specifically the least interactive and most newbie-frustrating aspect. I honestly think that the game would be significantly better off without them. That being said I don't think there is much chance of that. So, next best option: learn to hunt them. I've had a lot of fun building and flying dedicated GS-hunters. And while it is true that a well-coordinated team of GS or GS/Bomber pilots will dominate everything, I find that the occasional frustrating game does not ruin the GSF experience (at least for me).

Uncoordinated gunship wall > uncoordinated scout swarm. They back off to the spawn and only have to deal with a scout or two at a time.

Coordinated scout swarm > uncoordinated gunship wall. Gunships can't just set up and snipe.

This is something that experienced players that predominately fly in teams do not understand. In experienced coordinated play, scouts are a soft counter to Gunships. Where Gunships are a hard counter to everything else and at the lower skill levels the Gunships will out perform. So in a perfect world where piloting error does not exist yes theoretically Gunships are not over powered, but in the practical and observable world of real GSF matches. Yes they are. Edited January 27, 2016 by Lendul

Go play on JC when they have a Novadive Only event, and all the good pilots on the server are pubside but you thought the event was the day before that so it didn't cross your mind. Bust out your gunship. Watch as twelve Novadives zip around like very dangerous bugs you can't hit that swarm onto nodes before you're halfway there. See how OP you feel in your gunship then.

 

NERF NOVADIVES!!!

 

Despon

 

**off-topic (sort of)**

LOL - I remember this past Sunday (1/24) being part of a NovaDive swarm on Bee-kay in a match where you were flying Imp-side. I recall looking at the pilot names while waiting on the start timer, realizing how horribly skewed the talent pool was, and thinking "damn this is gonna suck for Despon, he might be the only one over there with any idea what to do against a scout swarm".

 

Sadly that's one of the problems with some GSF events. You try to do them single-faction in order to get wargames so all or nearly all of the participants are following the "rules", but then you end up with a massively stacked deck if it isn't a wargame match.

 

**on-topic**

I don't think gunships are OP, but they can certainly seem that way at times. Given the chance I'd change something, in most cases major, about pretty much every ship in the game.

Is it any less frustrating for a team of new players to queue up and be tossed into a Domination match where they face 4-6 T1 bombers? They are put in a position where a large percentage of the time, their weapons literally can't even hurt a CP bomber, so on the off chance they do hit them, they won't do any damage. This situation happens all the time on Harbinger. It is not in any way uncommon for one side to stack 4-6 bombers and watch as the inexperienced team gives up and eventually won't even approach the nodes.

 

If you think it is any more fun for a new player to be repeatedly demolished by an evasion scout that they can't hit that takes under two seconds to blow them away, I would posit that you are wrong.

 

New pilots are at the mercy of experienced pilots. This does not mean ships are broken. This does not mean nerfs are the answer. People who don't know what they're doing are going to be easy targets for those who do, regardless of what they're flying. This is not a controversial statement. It is one that has been proven time and again.

 

If you want to vent and complain, then pick the right target. If we had cross-server queuing or something approximating that which put a larger player base into the pool of people looking for matches, there would be a lot fewer frustrating one-sided stomps.

 

It is not hard to kill (or at least nullify) gunships, once you know what you're doing. Instead of crying for nerfs, learn what to do, get good at it, and watch your problems disappear in a cloud of smoke.

 

Despon

Is it any less frustrating for a team of new players to queue up and be tossed into a Domination match where they face 4-6 T1 bombers?

Maybe not. However, they dont 'explode without reason' like against a GS.

Drones and mines in most cases aren't insta-killing....

 

If you think it is any more fun for a new player to be repeatedly demolished by an evasion scout that they can't hit that takes under two seconds to blow them away, I would posit that you are wrong.

Maybe for someone used to PvE and expecting that enemy will die like in rail shooter.

For others it should be more fair - enemy was in close range. They could shoot back. They could try to evade....

Being blown up or crippled from away is a different thing...

 

New pilots are at the mercy of experienced pilots. This does not mean ships are broken. This does not mean nerfs are the answer.

In case when said ship gives trouble to all experience brackets?... I didn't find in my last 2 week collection ANY TDMs ending with close result where gunships count was lesser than scouts...

In troubled matches it practically always boils down to GS/bopmbr combo - in both TDM and Domination. More bombers in Dom , though.

 

People who don't know what they're doing are going to be easy targets for those who do, regardless of what they're flying. This is not a controversial statement. It is one that has been proven time and again.

Skill gap is one thing. But again, being blown up from close range (and the battlescout can't CRIPPLE...) is a different thing than just exploding suddenly. Or being drained ffrom power in first hit then exploding after 3 seconds, without much chance to avoid that shot. Also, with basic upgredes a chance for escaping raging battlescout is greatly increased compared to GS...

 

 

It is not hard to kill (or at least nullify) gunships, once you know what you're doing. Instead of crying for nerfs, learn what to do, get good at it, and watch your problems disappear in a cloud of smoke.

 

Well, I may not be an ace but can call myself 'pretty good'. And the problem did not 'disappear' in a cloud of smoke (except for the fact I have my own gunship that I can use against enemy team if the game goes GS-heavy".

Sure, in voip premade it is possible to kill gunships with scouts (unless they have 2-3 bombers with them). In typical pug games it is close to impossible.

 

PS. I gave up any hopes that there will be any ballance patch to GSF. Can live with it. However, seeing more experienced group going GS-heavy against newbies and competing 'who will kill more' sometimes make me sad...

Edited January 27, 2016 by Bolo_Yeung

Maybe not. However, they dont 'explode without reason' like against a GS.

Drones and mines in most cases aren't insta-killing....

Tell that to my Sting when it eats a seismic mine. Chances are that when you're in a high-traffic area, you're going to take a glancing shot or two off the shields and by the time that seismic activates, you're in one-shot territory.

 

Maybe for someone used to PvE and expecting that enemy will die like in rail shooter. For others it should be more fair - enemy was in close range. They could shoot back. They could try to evade.... Being blown up or crippled from away is a different thing...

Being aware of your enemy is a skill that needs to be developed no matter what range you're at. I can't count how many people I watch casually fly by me when I'm in a scout, tunnel-visioned on their target or the node, and let me fly right behind them and obliterate them without even changing course.

 

Understanding that you can't expect to fly unscathed through open space without ever using cover is a key realization in becoming a successful pilot.

 

More bombers in Dom , though.

My anecdotal experience is that bombers are hugely outnumbering gs in Dom. Could vary by server.

 

I actually consider gs a poor choice on Kuat Mesas Dom and will rarely run it on that map unless the whole enemy team is bombers (which does sometimes happen)

 

Teams that run too many gs in Dom matches are very often bad at capping and holding nodes. I've seen it happen plenty of times.

 

(and the battlescout can't CRIPPLE...)

...

Or being drained ffrom power in first hit then exploding after 3 seconds, without much chance to avoid that shot.

So, the battlescout can cripple if they wanted to. They can run Sabotage Probe. Nobody does, because it's bugged and not all that strong, but with a fix to the bug and a tweak to the relative strength of it, you'd probably see it happen.

 

I've had numerous matches lately when I flew scout and got so much Interdiction junk dumped on me that I was rendered immobile and had to sit there until someone shot me to death or another mine dropped. I'm pretty sure I had so much heaped on my ship in one match that I was actually moving slowly backwards.

 

Despon

Tell that to my Sting when it eats a seismic mine. Chances are that when you're in a high-traffic area, you're going to take a glancing shot or two off the shields and by the time that seismic activates, you're in one-shot territory.

far lesser chances than GS crit (and if you get full slug in a 'traffic' area you are one shotted as well; full slug crit will kill scout anyway...

Also, you have to me in 3k radius from mine , comparing to 15k fro GS. You can try to destroy the mine form 3+k range before it explodes, but often can't attack a GS that already have you in railgun range

 

 

Being aware of your enemy is a skill that needs to be developed no matter what range you're at. I can't count how many people I watch casually fly by me when I'm in a scout, tunnel-visioned on their target or the node, and let me fly right behind them and obliterate them without even changing course.

 

Being aware of enemy in close range is easy - press Tab few times. Also, you can see that someone is within 5k range just by size of the red triangle marker.

Being aware of GS in 10k+ is a little more difficult, especially if there are mines/drones etc.

 

Understanding that you can't expect to fly unscathed through open space without ever using cover is a key realization in becoming a successful pilot.

 

Getting cover from one gunship is doable without super effort. Two or thre... thats a different matter.

 

 

My anecdotal experience is that bombers are hugely outnumbering gs in Dom. Could vary by server.

Possible. That does not change the fact that a bombers and GS are pretty capable of making an unkillable team.. Ratios may wary

 

I actually consider gs a poor choice on Kuat Mesas Dom and will rarely run it on that map unless the whole enemy team is bombers (which does sometimes happen)

 

Only on B node, A and C are pretty good to go with GS. Still pretty good to go, assuming the team know how to use support.

 

Teams that run too many gs in Dom matches are very often bad at capping and holding nodes. I've seen it happen plenty of times.

3-4 GS between A and B on Denon / Shipyards, 1-2 bombers on each node. Pretty much untouchable. Of course assuming equal skill teams

 

So, the battlescout can cripple if they wanted to. They can run Sabotage Probe. Nobody does, because it's bugged and not all that strong, but with a fix to the bug and a tweak to the relative strength of it, you'd probably see it happen.

 

That does not change the general meaning. Can cripple - by giving up pods and clusters, leaving only BLC as damage weapon, the cripple is survivable (if you have clear area forward, just boosting can save you from BLC, due to range calculation)

The ion rail cripple is much worse.

 

I've had numerous matches lately when I flew scout and got so much Interdiction junk dumped on me that I was rendered immobile and had to sit there until someone shot me to death or another mine dropped. I'm pretty sure I had so much heaped on my ship in one match that I was actually moving slowly backwards.

 

AFAIK, it happens only on interdiction mine with +10% and seismic with slow upgrade . However, it is possible only on Domination - and a gunship with ion AoE or ship with EMP will clear the node. EMP will also make sure that there are no interdiction mines for the next 15 seconda...

Edited January 27, 2016 by Bolo_Yeung

IMO the optimal team of eight has the following ships (or something close to it):

 

Domination - 2 beacon bombers, 1 interdiction repair bomber, 3 gunships, 2 scouts

TDM - 1 railgun repair bomber, 5 gunships, 2 scouts (swap 1 gunship for a 2nd railgun repair bomber against scout heavy teams)

 

So yes, gunships are perhaps a bit more important than scouts. But a team of just gunships and bombers loses to these optimal setups. It's a team game, don't expect to carry a game in a scout against a good team.

 

 

Being aware of enemy in close range is easy - press Tab few times. Also, you can see that someone is within 5k range just by size of the red triangle marker.

Being aware of GS in 10k+ is a little more difficult, especially if there are mines/drones etc.

 

Getting cover from one gunship is doable without super effort. Two or thre... thats a different matter.

 

Possible. That does not change the fact that a bombers and GS are pretty capable of making an unkillable team.. Ratios may wary

 

3-4 GS between A and B on Denon / Shipyards, 1-2 bombers on each node. Pretty much untouchable. Of course assuming equal skill teams.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the scout is not intended to be the be all end all all-in-one carry ship. It was intended to kill stealth ships and since that isn't a thing - it now serves a niche purpose of distracting gunships and making them move. As soon as you realize that, it's going to be a lot easier for you to deal with them. YOU DON'T HAVE TO KILL THE GUNSHIP for you to be super useful for your team.

 

 

AFAIK, it happens only on interdiction mine with +10% and seismic with slow upgrade . However, it is possible only on Domination - and a gunship with ion AoE or ship with EMP will clear the node. EMP will also make sure that there are no interdiction mines for the next 15 seconda...

 

Interdiction mine + the slow on ion railgun creates this effect.

Edited January 27, 2016 by RickDagles

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the scout is not intended to be the be all end all all-in-one carry ship. It was intended to kill stealth ships and since that isn't a thing - it now serves a niche purpose of distracting gunships and making them move. As soon as you realize that, it's going to be a lot easier for you to deal with them. YOU DON'T HAVE TO KILL THE GUNSHIP for you to be super useful for your team.

 

Problem with aggresive gunship pilots that can stil shoot at targets of opportunity while fleeing.

 

Interdiction mine + the slow on ion railgun creates this effect.

Never experienced it. Possible though, most people use regen disable effect on T% ion rail, so I rarely get slowed by it.

A rough theory: effects that just slow speed and effects that slow speed and turning rate - stack. Interdiction does not stack (int. drone and mine and missile still allow to move)

There are two kinds of effects that can stack. Slow and Interdiction. The Slow effect just slows while the Interdiction effects slows and reduces turning speed. Of each type there can be only one active at the same time, but both types can be active simultaneously.

 

I vaguely remember a list was posted somewhere here a few months ago, but I can't remember where exactly.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Danalon

Yep Drak posted a comprehensive list a few months ago. I'll see if I can dig it up. But Danalon has the main idea.

Even learning to beat the Gunships it's still not fun to fight with them in a match because beating one gunship is one thing, but trying to get close enough to beat one that's supported by 4 others is something else.

 

Gunships and bombers basically ruin the dogfighting aspect of this game which is what most players are expecting when they try out GSF for the first time.

 

Also there are whole teams going around in nothing but gunship/bombers and there's literally nothing your pug team can do about them. Basically I just recommend leaving a game if you feel the teams are unfair. If people want to stack teams with all their buddies in teamspeak and do lame crap they should be made to enjoy their 10 second auto-wins.

Also there are whole teams going around in nothing but gunship/bombers and there's literally nothing your pug team can do about them. Basically I just recommend leaving a game if you feel the teams are unfair. If people want to stack teams with all their buddies in teamspeak and do lame crap they should be made to enjoy their 10 second auto-wins.

Unfair teams are a whole separate issue from ship balance. I guarantee you, if that team was all scouts, the result would be the same. You will land few shots, they will land many, you will blow up quickly. When you have a team of veterans vs. a team of new players, the new players are not going to stand a chance even if the veterans are flying stock ships.

 

It definitely sucks to be stuck in a bad match like that. Veterans who solo queue get put in situations like that far too often, as well. Team balance issues are only ever going to be solved by developer action... so give yourself the best chance of having time and space to learn the game.

 

What I recommend you do is join your server's GSF channel by typing /cjoin GSF . Find some veteran pilots on there and group up with them. There are a great many who welcome flying with new pilots and will be glad to share their advice and experience with you. You'll have a better chance of having a good match that way.

 

There are also numerous guilds who play a lot of GSF and will show you the ropes and give you a base of people to fly with.

 

Despon

So as someone who has been trying GSF for a few months now and only recently mastered a second ship, I feel like part of the problem is an illusion of chance. If I'm fighting a scout and get blown away I am left thinking that they outflew me and I had a chance to get them. With GS I was frequently confused as to how I died and felt there was little to nothing I could do about it. Basically Gunships are less interactive than the others which I feel is a bad thing. As I started figuring out tactics to counter gunships I started dying to them less, but it is a different set of skills/habits than for any of the other ship types by quite a fair margin. So while gunships ARE counter-able, to the new player the don't FEEL counter-able, which leads to a high incidence of rage-quits. I know that after I got really into GSF I tried to get a bunch of my friends into it as well, and 4 of them tried it, 3 of them quit forever after one match with 6 gunships. Gunships are probably the least newbie-friendly aspect of GSF, and as a struggling mini-game that's an issue.

Unfair teams are a whole separate issue from ship balance. I guarantee you, if that team was all scouts, the result would be the same. You will land few shots, they will land many, you will blow up quickly. When you have a team of veterans vs. a team of new players, the new players are not going to stand a chance even if the veterans are flying stock ships.

 

It definitely sucks to be stuck in a bad match like that. Veterans who solo queue get put in situations like that far too often, as well. Team balance issues are only ever going to be solved by developer action... so give yourself the best chance of having time and space to learn the game.

 

What I recommend you do is join your server's GSF channel by typing /cjoin GSF . Find some veteran pilots on there and group up with them. There are a great many who welcome flying with new pilots and will be glad to share their advice and experience with you. You'll have a better chance of having a good match that way.

 

There are also numerous guilds who play a lot of GSF and will show you the ropes and give you a base of people to fly with.

 

Despon

 

That doesn't really solve the problem tho des, it will help a lil but the one-sidedness remains and plenty of folks were venting in gsf chat.

Even learning to beat the Gunships it's still not fun to fight with them in a match because beating one gunship is one thing, but trying to get close enough to beat one that's supported by 4 others is something else.

 

Gunships and bombers basically ruin the dogfighting aspect of this game which is what most players are expecting when they try out GSF for the first time.

 

Also there are whole teams going around in nothing but gunship/bombers and there's literally nothing your pug team can do about them. Basically I just recommend leaving a game if you feel the teams are unfair. If people want to stack teams with all their buddies in teamspeak and do lame crap they should be made to enjoy their 10 second auto-wins.

 

Beating a team requires a team. That's why this is a team game. On the other hand, you don't need to be on voip to beat a team most of the time, and I guarantee you that most of the teams you see (even premades) aren't on voip. Even when they are, it's not what makes them win.

 

I rarely see any dogfights on TRE, where most people fly the T2 scout. What I do see is scouts getting the jump on other scouts, generally. You don't get dogfighting in GSF, bombers and gunships or no.

 

I think a team stacking scouts can be just as annoying as a team stacking bombers. You tend to blow up quite often... Gunships are a different story, because they are almost as bursty as scouts and with a longer range, but if you read some of the tips players gave here (and more importantly, fly as a team), they shouldn't be any more of a problem than other ships.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Greezt