My first issue is the internediate ingredients, the components. It is a major time dump to try to figure out which ones and how many. It is a major waste of time waiting to craft four of them to make a single mod. I still need twenty-five of them, plus relics, implants and earpiece...

 

Sure, I could spend all my log-in time over the next few WEEKS converting all my mats into components, but that doesn't save me space, or time. And I've got to spend more time figuring out how many of which component I need to make. This is NOT a simplified, streamlined, time-saving change.

 

In fact, I think it takes LONGER to make a mods.

 

Now I am running into issues with materials. There seems to be some randomness as to which gathering skills gather the materials for different schematics. I now need purple and blue materials from other places.

 

And I better remember to look through the jumble of archived schematics to ensure comparable items don't have better stats there. All those confusing stats on all those mods, I still have to deal with them AND the new stats on the new mods.

 

So: Get rid of the stupid components! Examine the materials needed. Readjust the stats on the mods...

 

Here's a clue: if you want to make a click-and-wait crafting-system, time should be measured in seconds per item, not minutes and hours.

Not until they increase item stack sizes. I'm glad for the ability to compress my materials into fewer stacks.

My first issue is the internediate ingredients, the components. It is a major time dump to try to figure out which ones and how many.

 

Not really. Each grade has a component. If you want to make something in a given grade you need to make that's grade's components (bugs aside; I know there are/were some issues with "cross skill" components [art needing AT components or something like that]).

 

It is a major waste of time waiting to craft four of them to make a single mod. I still need twenty-five of them, plus relics, implants and earpiece...

 

Again not really, when you consider that before you had to craft greens and RE for a 20% chance at one of three blues (two of which were usually junk), and then craft blues, for a 20% chance at one of two to five purples (of which all but one were junk)... Not to mention that the old greens took longer to craft than the components do now.

 

Sure, I could spend all my log-in time over the next few WEEKS converting all my mats into components, but that doesn't save me space, or time. And I've got to spend more time figuring out how many of which component I need to make. This is NOT a simplified, streamlined, time-saving change.

 

I do not bother converting materials into components, because you are right there is no way to know what components you will in fact need at any given moment. However, once you have a decent stock of components - you really only ever NEED 20 at any one time - what *I* do is craft final products with one companion, craft components with another one or two and run materials missions on the other three. In my experience thus far, with this strategy I have little want for components; because components take far less time than final products I can get in two passes of components (if I want) for every pass of final products.

 

In fact, I think it takes LONGER to make a mods.

from a purely linear standpoint you're right. If you use one companion to acquires, craft components, and then craft final products then what you say is true. But at level 56+ you have six companions that can do crew skills.

 

Now I am running into issues with materials. There seems to be some randomness as to which gathering skills gather the materials for different schematics. I now need purple and blue materials from other places.

on this I will agree with you, they messed up. It used to be that a single character could have a crafting skill and the gathering skill and mission skill to feed it. Now every crafting skill has at least two missions required (mostly slicing). Intentional or a bug, I do not know. That being said, so far in my experience it has only been BLUE mission materials that have crossed, and they are generally cheap on the GTN...cheaper than running the missions yourself.

 

And I better remember to look through the jumble of archived schematics to ensure comparable items don't have better stats there. All those confusing stats on all those mods, I still have to deal with them AND the new stats on the new mods.

have you in fact found an archived item with better stats? It was my understanding that would not ever be the case.

 

Here's a clue: if you want to make a click-and-wait crafting-system, time should be measured in seconds per item, not minutes and hours.

If you are talking about final products taking seconds to craft, that is simply not how this game works. YOU the player character do not have to do anything with regard to crafting that takes minutes or hours; you send companions to do the work and in the meantime you can play the game...instead of the standing around fleet.

My first issue is the internediate ingredients, the components. It is a major time dump to try to figure out which ones and how many. It is a major waste of time waiting to craft four of them to make a single mod. I still need twenty-five of them, plus relics, implants and earpiece...

 

It's very much intended to stop crafters from being "fire and forget" type players. Before you could log on, buy stuff from GTN and log off too easily while creating hours of crafted items. The new system rewards crafters who actually stay online a lot more.

 

Sure, I could spend all my log-in time over the next few WEEKS converting all my mats into components, but that doesn't save me space, or time. And I've got to spend more time figuring out how many of which component I need to make. This is NOT a simplified, streamlined, time-saving change.

 

No matter what the devs have said, it's not designed to save you time compared to the old system IF you're a log-in and forget crafter. It's designed to save you time (through high influence) if you're a log in and and stay logged in crafter,

 

In fact, I think it takes LONGER to make a mods.

 

No it really doesn't. After like Companion influence 30 ish its much faster.

 

Now I am running into issues with materials. There seems to be some randomness as to which gathering skills gather the materials for different schematics. I now need purple and blue materials from other places.

 

Bug that will be fixed.

 

And I better remember to look through the jumble of archived schematics to ensure comparable items don't have better stats there. All those confusing stats on all those mods, I still have to deal with them AND the new stats on the new mods.

 

They usually don't.

 

So: Get rid of the stupid components! Examine the materials needed. Readjust the stats on the mods...

 

Here's a clue: if you want to make a click-and-wait crafting-system, time should be measured in seconds per item, not minutes and hours.

 

Why? Certain items should be time-gated behind hours and even days in some cases.

 

You're very ignorant about economics and about why crafting in SWTOR is actually profitable. If everything was "instant craft" then our system would have devolved to GW2's system, which after a week, saw all prices of crafted goods fall below the cost of materials. Why? Because there is no opportunity cost (time) to ever crafting if everything is instant craft.

 

Crafting in that game for non-personal uses is absolutely useless and I would hate it if they did that to SWTOR.

Cool replies and I appreciate them. Instead of cutting and pasting let me instead just use an example of my issue.

 

I am running missions on one of my characters and I realize that my gear is out of date so I do some alt hopping. I log onto my different crafters and get them to make the gear I want and I log out. Later, when I am ready to update my character's gear, I log onto the crafters and mail the completed gear the character.

 

Now, I have to go through the intermediate step of making a bunch of components. Yes, I have been making components in anticipation of that need, but it always seems I don't have enough of the right components. It's hard enough tracking thirty different items, now I have to track almost a hundred different components and the materials to make them.

 

Components are not saving my storage space, I still need space for the materials as I gather them. Components are not saving me time because I have to wait for four of them to be completed to make one piece of gear.

 

As some additional information, I did already research blues and some purples for the gear I liked. Now with the components, researching purples is a major pain. It doesn't matter if I'm in Fleet, in my ship or on mission: I am waiting for completion bars to fill. Four components and the item is five bars that need filling. And if I am on a planet, materials, components and items are now competing for inventory space with the junk drops, another pain.

 

I know how to work this crafting system, but am frustrated by being told "It's improved!" I am going to say it again: It's a click-and-wait crafting-system, why am I having to wait even longer? Why make a click-and-wait system such a pain to use? It's like being told toilet paper has been improved by putting splinters in it...

Oh, and I have found a few cases where the archived gear was better. Granted, not a lot, but enough to make me want to check. That and the way stats are distrubuted among the different mods has changed, so sometimes the older mod has a more useful mix of stats.

I usually don't look at the stats of gear I craft - it's rather the look of it which makes me decides whether I produce a piece or not.

 

Before 4.0 this was different, though : Because I was crafting a *lot* more - for my Companions. Yes, crafting was an easy and quick way to get level-appopriate gear for Companions at that time !

It's very much intended to stop crafters from being "fire and forget" type players. Before you could log on, buy stuff from GTN and log off too easily while creating hours of crafted items. The new system rewards crafters who actually stay online a lot more.

 

... I can login and buy the crafted components though ... what's different in that regard?

 

The rest of your post implies BW wanted to make crafting less "casual" friendly though I got the opinion from some their rhetoric around it that they wanted to encourage more people to craft etc. i.e. make it more casual friendly. *shrug*

 

 

On the whole I agree with most of what the OP has to say, this system has now completely put me off crafting for the most part ( there are few items that haven't suffered the extra complexity though that are still very profitable like war supplies, prefabs and dyes ).

 

I also don't see why people are defending it around the improved RE changes, they are effectively a limited time deal where as the changes are full time. By this I mean once you had your schem you had your schem, RE no longer mattered.

So if you were to take these changes over the course of a year do you really think the RE changes time saved will come out on top over the amount of extra time managing extra mats and crafting extra steps?

... I can login and buy the crafted components though ... what's different in that regard?

 

The rest of your post implies BW wanted to make crafting less "casual" friendly though I got the opinion from some their rhetoric around it that they wanted to encourage more people to craft etc. i.e. make it more casual friendly. *shrug*

 

 

On the whole I agree with most of what the OP has to say, this system has now completely put me off crafting for the most part ( there are few items that haven't suffered the extra complexity though that are still very profitable like war supplies, prefabs and dyes ).

 

I also don't see why people are defending it around the improved RE changes, they are effectively a limited time deal where as the changes are full time. By this I mean once you had your schem you had your schem, RE no longer mattered.

So if you were to take these changes over the course of a year do you really think the RE changes time saved will come out on top over the amount of extra time managing extra mats and crafting extra steps?

 

You can, but the cost of the components is approximately 4.6x the cost of mats (on my server at least). And usually the stock on the GTN is not that high.

 

Crafting is much more casual friendly on a smaller scale. Everything crafts much faster (even counting the time to craft components). Especially if you have Rank 20+ companions. Casuals don't log in just to craft on one character. Queue up 30 jobs and leave. Casuals craft on their main and craft for themselves.

 

Like I said, the system is ingenious, it stymies the efficiency of logging in and forgetting type crafting while rewarding the crafters who actually stay logged on.

Crafting is much more casual friendly on a smaller scale. Everything crafts much faster (even counting the time to craft components). Especially if you have Rank 20+ companions. Casuals don't log in just to craft on one character. Queue up 30 jobs and leave. Casuals craft on their main and craft for themselves.

 

Like I said, the system is ingenious, it stymies the efficiency of logging in and forgetting type crafting while rewarding the crafters who actually stay logged on.

 

Your generalizations about "casuals" are inaccurate. Many casuals, myself included, have multiple crafters. A few of my alts I don't log onto much until I need them to craft something or gather more materials to restock the vault. Most of my alts I enjoy playing and leveling thus I need to craft stuff for them from time to time on other alts. I had three Cybertechs, each specializing in different attributes. Now I have only two and I enjoy playing both of them, though I am not sure how much crafting they will do...

 

But you're right, the new system is more efficient if I wait for the components to be completed. I find it to be a pain in the inventory to craft while doing missions though. In other games, I can log in and craft or gather or adventure. This game just has crafting and gathering as background noise. With these components, it's an irritating background noise. It's too bad that BioWare couldn't use the imagination they put into combat into crafting as well.

You can, but the cost of the components is approximately 4.6x the cost of mats (on my server at least). And usually the stock on the GTN is not that high.

 

So I just buy the mats and sell the components then, sounds highly profitable and still refutes your point of trying to stop me "firing and forgetting"

 

Crafting is much more casual friendly on a smaller scale. Everything crafts much faster (even counting the time to craft components). Especially if you have Rank 20+ companions. Casuals don't log in just to craft on one character. Queue up 30 jobs and leave. Casuals craft on their main and craft for themselves.

 

How is having more mats and an extra stage of crafting more casual friendly? So far you've only really tried to justify the act of crafting itself whilst ignoring the act of gathering, managing and storing the materials plus the introduction of a 2nd crafting stage.

 

Refer the OP to see all they ways in which this is not casual friendly.

 

As it seems, crafting for profit isn't overly harder than it was before ( depending on the market ) because you can streamline it over multiple toons etc. Previous posts by players like Psandak tend to support this in that I believe he is not finding the changes to be overly cumbersome to what he had to do before.

Not that I want to speak for him and we should wait for him to possibly reply himself but this is the general impression I get and it's in no way making his relog dance between toons and spending the hour a day to make his millions much more difficult or time consuming that before - it's just different. So if that's the case your point of " it stymies the efficiency of logging in and forgetting type crafting while rewarding the crafters who actually stay logged on. " is completely moot.

 

However for a casual who might only want to craft themselves some gear on their 1 toon ... far more cumbersome and it actually FORCES you to buy some mats from the GTN OR have a 2nd toon in some cases ( unless it was patched ) because they require 4 crew skills to make the end result.

 

It should have never been touched. They should have given the QoL improvements to RE and RNG and left it as it was.

You're very ignorant about economics and about why crafting in SWTOR is actually profitable. If everything was "instant craft" then our system would have devolved to GW2's system, which after a week, saw all prices of crafted goods fall below the cost of materials. Why? Because there is no opportunity cost (time) to ever crafting if everything is instant craft.

 

Crafting in that game for non-personal uses is absolutely useless and I would hate it if they did that to SWTOR.

 

Yes, I am very ignorant about economics. I listen to most economics' experts and perceive that they are full of hot air, and themselves.

 

I haven't played GW2 in a while but I didn't see it as a broken economy. One of the factors you have to examine when using the term cost is demand. Materials cost more on auction/trade houses because only rich players who don't have the time to gather buy them. The idea of buying materials then crafting items for profit is ludicrous in an MMO economy. It does happen, but has been the exception to the rule in my exoerience. The crafters that can exploit those exceptions make money, the rest of us just craft for fun.

 

In every MMO I've ever played, materials cost more than the items they make, comparatively. If I want to make some quick currency, I sell stacks of mats, which are usually bought by the resellers who are playing the market.

it should have never been touched. They should have given the qol improvements to re and rng and left it as it was.

 

amen!

Day 1 player and I have to say I absolutely HATE the new crafting.

 

I like change but this was just wholesale stupid what the devs did.

 

And this is just one of many things I hate about this new patch. I hate the dumbing down of skills for my character and my companions. Now with companions it feels like just "pick the companion that looks good with you" vs leveling them with you and picking the right companion for the job.

 

The only thing I have liked with the new expansion is the story.... and sad to say it may not be enough to keep me subbed.

I absolutely HATE the new crafting. I like change but this was just wholesale stupid what the devs did.

 

Amen !

Your generalizations about "casuals" are inaccurate. Many casuals, myself included, have multiple crafters. A few of my alts I don't log onto much until I need them to craft something or gather more materials to restock the vault. Most of my alts I enjoy playing and leveling thus I need to craft stuff for them from time to time on other alts. I had three Cybertechs, each specializing in different attributes. Now I have only two and I enjoy playing both of them, though I am not sure how much crafting they will do...

 

But you're right, the new system is more efficient if I wait for the components to be completed. I find it to be a pain in the inventory to craft while doing missions though. In other games, I can log in and craft or gather or adventure. This game just has crafting and gathering as background noise. With these components, it's an irritating background noise. It's too bad that BioWare couldn't use the imagination they put into combat into crafting as well.

 

Amen on crafting being sooo irritating background noise now.

 

I have 11 toons on Jung Ma.... all have (had) crafting speicialties that I focused on getting max companion affection on those that benefitted my crafting most on that specific toon. Now that is just thrown in the garbage with the new influence system and in essence knocking my "max influence" down to almost nothing that I worked VERY hard at since game launch. Add to that the added materials that need crafting before you can craft..... screw it.... its too much of a pain now. Something I USED to enjoy (especially while leveling new toons) is so completely annoying that I just can be bothered by it.

 

The same reason I never got into crafting "Conquest" stuff and Stronghold supplies.... it was too annoying for me to spend the 1-2 hours a night I play and the 4 or 5 hours on the weekend. Now it applies to crafting everything else....

 

-1 to BIOFAIL for a horrible, unimaginative crafting system made worse.

Edited November 19, 2015 by FAAmecanic

Amen on crafting being sooo irritating background noise now.

 

I have 11 toons on Jung Ma.... all have (had) crafting speicialties that I focused on getting max companion affection on those that benefitted my crafting most on that specific toon. Now that is just thrown in the garbage with the new influence system and in essence knocking my "max influence" down to almost nothing that I worked VERY hard at since game launch. Add to that the added materials that need crafting before you can craft..... screw it.... its too much of a pain now. Something I USED to enjoy (especially while leveling new toons) is so completely annoying that I just can be bothered by it.

 

The same reason I never got into crafting "Conquest" stuff and Stronghold supplies.... it was too annoying for me to spend the 1-2 hours a night I play and the 4 or 5 hours on the weekend. Now it applies to crafting everything else....

 

-1 to BIOFAIL for a horrible, unimaginative crafting system made worse.

 

You make sound like it was impossibly hard work and took hours upon hours of actual "effort" to get a companion's affection to 10k. Can we say hyperbole?

 

pre4.0 to get from 0 to 8k affection took 25 minutes and at most 200k credits; you could get to 6k affection in 15 minutes and spend only 40k credits. So it was not that tough to get to max affection.

 

Furthermore, TODAY you can get from 0 to rank 20 influence for 100k credits...I've done it. Yes, it takes more time, but it is still just clicking a button over and over. And you can get to rank 30 on grade 1 gifts.

 

My point is, you make it sound nigh impossible to adapt to the new situation, when in fact it is easy to work it

You make sound like it was impossibly hard work and took hours upon hours of actual "effort" to get a companion's affection to 10k. Can we say hyperbole?

 

pre4.0 to get from 0 to 8k affection took 25 minutes and at most 200k credits; you could get to 6k affection in 15 minutes and spend only 40k credits. So it was not that tough to get to max affection.

 

Furthermore, TODAY you can get from 0 to rank 20 influence for 100k credits...I've done it. Yes, it takes more time, but it is still just clicking a button over and over. And you can get to rank 30 on grade 1 gifts.

 

My point is, you make it sound nigh impossible to adapt to the new situation, when in fact it is easy to work it

 

Rank 30 on rank 1 gifts?!! Lol.

 

I take my hat off to you if you've done this lol, that is dedication.

 

Personally I prefer to just spend the money and less time and clicks.

Rank 30 on rank 1 gifts?!! Lol.

 

I take my hat off to you if you've done this lol, that is dedication.

 

Personally I prefer to just spend the money and less time and clicks.

 

Agreed. Especially since Grade 5 Blue/Purples are only about 2K each...and there's really nothing else to do with Basic Comms (I still have the 3 boxes of 99 on lots of characters).

Rank 30 on rank 1 gifts?!! Lol.

 

I take my hat off to you if you've done this lol, that is dedication.

 

Personally I prefer to just spend the money and less time and clicks.

 

Not saying I did it. Saying it is possible.

 

I have gone as high as rank 25 on grade 1 gifts; Spent 3 hours watching netflix and clicking to get six companions on two characters to rank 20+

Edited November 20, 2015 by psandak

Not saying I did it. Saying it is possible.

 

I have gone as high as rank 25 on grade 1 gifts; Spent 3 hours watching netflix and clicking to get six companions on two characters to rank 20+

 

Lol well then well done. That is some great finger fortitude

Lol well then well done. That is some great finger fortitude

 

Things I learned from the CSM

Things I learned from the CSM

 

THAT is my overall complaint about SWtOR's crafting system! It should not feel like another one of the Sergeant Major's mindless detail assignments: the rocks need to be painted on both sides!

 

I hate crafting systems that encourage doing something else, watching TV, surfing the net, etc, while crafting. When I log into the game I want to play it, not click, wait fifteen minutes for a bar to fill, then repeat. If I am crafting, I want to craft. If I want to earn affection with a companion, I should be doing stuff with the companion.

 

At least pre 4.0 I could click and log out, or switch to another character. Now I should stay and wait. Now i have to spend a lot more time shuffling inventory spaces.

THAT is my overall complaint about SWtOR's crafting system! It should not feel like another one of the Sergeant Major's mindless detail assignments: the rocks need to be painted on both sides!

 

I hate crafting systems that encourage doing something else, watching TV, surfing the net, etc, while crafting. When I log into the game I want to play it, not click, wait fifteen minutes for a bar to fill, then repeat. If I am crafting, I want to craft. If I want to earn affection with a companion, I should be doing stuff with the companion.

 

At least pre 4.0 I could click and log out, or switch to another character. Now I should stay and wait. Now i have to spend a lot more time shuffling inventory spaces.

 

I agree that clicking for influence is not the best system in the world. Clicking while watching TV is not what I want to be doing either. But it is the best way to increase influence quickly.

 

However, I disagree with your assessment that crafting taking time is wrong. The advantage of having companions doing crew skills is that you can play while they are working. Now if you are waiting for something to get crafted so you can use it, whose fault is it really that you did not plan ahead and have that crafted stuff waiting for you?

THAT is my overall complaint about SWtOR's crafting system! It should not feel like another one of the Sergeant Major's mindless detail assignments: the rocks need to be painted on both sides!

 

I hate crafting systems that encourage doing something else, watching TV, surfing the net, etc, while crafting. When I log into the game I want to play it, not click, wait fifteen minutes for a bar to fill, then repeat. If I am crafting, I want to craft. If I want to earn affection with a companion, I should be doing stuff with the companion.

 

At least pre 4.0 I could click and log out, or switch to another character. Now I should stay and wait. Now i have to spend a lot more time shuffling inventory spaces.

 

The crafting isn't the mindless clicking, it's feeding gifts to companions.