Slowpokeking Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 It seems Bioware overused 1-shot mech in ops, HM has quite a few 1-shot mech already. In NIM they just add more and more 1-shot mechanic(fail to do X and u die/wipe), I think it shouldn't be the only way to increase difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) You realize they're not making NM operations for this game anymore. It's been pointed out to you in other threads recently. What are you trying to accomplish by posting this? Edited August 29, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheGeek Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 It seems Bioware overused 1-shot mech in ops, HM has quite a few 1-shot mech already. In NIM they just add more and more 1-shot mechanic(fail to do X and u die/wipe), I think it shouldn't be the only way to increase difficulty. Are you sure they're oneshot mechanics, or just raid mechanics that require some skill? Let's go through the current "oneshots" for level 60 content: Sparky: the only oneshot move is in Hard Mode and still looks a bit like a bug, where the tank gets a 5 million damage hit if brutal pounce is done from more than melee range. Perfectly avoidable, tank follows the boss while jumping and shroud/saber reflect also deny the damage from killing you. Bulo: no oneshots here. A few moves to dodge, but a lot of the damage can be ignored by people using cooldowns. Torque: the only oneshot here is if the fight mechanic is failed 3 times which is fair enough or a HM mechanic. Sure the fire devices can cause a lot of damage but they're killed pretty fast and a keen eye will take at most one tick from the pre-DFD flames. Master & Blaster: arguably the hardest boss of Ravagers Hard Mode and the second hardest HM boss out there to me. The only oneshot mechanic here is during the burn phase where you get pushed overboard, unless you have the debuff from B0-55. The other mechanics that kill people (not oneshots but mistaken for) include: Master's conal knockback, high stacks during B0-55's ion overdrive, long range shot from Blaster (failed tank swap), orange circles eating people's health, triple bombs (bug) and people with bombs stacking. The bird, the *****, the bad guy and the beach (aka Cora): a fight with a lovely oneshot mechanic, double down! High rng, frenzied Pearl and having a few things to watch as well makes phase 1 of this fight without a doubt the most hectic fight of the new raids (save maybe the commanders burn phase.) I think it's a bit overtuned personally but it is the last fight of a hard mode raid so you need to expect something challenging. Ruugar doesn't have any definite "oneshots" rather a few moves in a short space that do a good chunk of damage. Two mouse droids, a jump and a dot will certainly make you struggle but there are ways to work around it (top off dps asap etc) Malaphar: no oneshots, the red spear circle can hurt if you have multiple stacks but again, no oneshots. Sword Squadron: soft enrage semi-oneshot, if you kill unit 2 more than 5 seconds before unit 1 he spams mega-blast and does a lot of damage to non-tanks. Easily avoidable with raid awareness. Underlurker: believe it or not, no oneshots. You're guaranteed a big hit if you stand outside the cross, but no oneshots. Revanite Commanders: surprisingly no oneshots. A lot of high damage incoming in certain phases, my favourite raid wipe being the Kurse tank deciding to hide under Sano's shield and drop a nice big purple death circle in them all. It's a tank awareness fight largely, with specific adds being under constant control and certain adds to be cc'd and so on, a hard fight but fun at first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Revan: no one shots… in the first few seconds! Actually I take it back: the first one-shot happens before the second GCD if your tank pulls wrong. Impel is a one shot if you do it wrong. Trail and Heave aren't one shots, but if you handle them both incorrectly they will be. Falling off the lamp on the stairs will one shot you. The heartbeat will instantly kill anyone out of position once every 15 seconds. Failing the platforming Mario climb is a one shot for the player that fails, and shortly thereafter, for the entire raid. And then floor 3… Basically every mechanic auto kills you if you make a single mistake. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Nim is no more, only current ops that have NIM will keep it current Hardmode TOS/RAV/CM are really Hardmare mix of hardmode and nim cause current HM is deffintly harder the old HM Edited August 29, 2015 by Kyuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 It seems Bioware overused 1-shot mech in ops, HM has quite a few 1-shot mech already. In NIM they just add more and more 1-shot mechanic(fail to do X and u die/wipe), I think it shouldn't be the only way to increase difficulty. NiM Ops are supposed to be difficult. The 1-shots are there to stop you from screwing up positioning or failing to follow mechanics, something that SM and some HM fights don't worry about. In the history of SWTOR, here are the 1-shots from SM -> NiM (off the top of my head) EV: The only 1-shot in this is in the Soa fight. If you aren't standing on the outside ring, chances are you will die to fall damage when the platforms phase starts KP: Falling off the edge into the lava on the rancor. Suprisingly, not a 1HKO EC: Here's where the 1-shots started actually coming in: Tanks - HM/NiM Double Destruction Minefield - Standing in a mine (surprisingly can be resisted now) Kephess HM - Tank swap mechanic Kephess NiM - 2 people dying = auto-wipe TFB: Writhing Horror: Tanks getting too many stacks (HM/NiM) Dread Guards: Hard Enrage (NiM) Operator IX: Failing too many cores (HM/any failures in NiM) Operator IX: Failing to stand in the correct colour when he's shielded(HM/NiM) Operator IX: Colour Deletion (HM/NiM) (anything later I haven't actually done D:) SnV: Dashroode: Getting stuck in the desert without a shield, shield being destroyed by adds to quickly (well its not an insta-kill...) Titan 6: Failing to hide behind a rock (HM/NiM) Thrasher: Not killing a sniper Ops Chief: Taking too long to engage boss, attacking a team with too many people Olok the Shadow: Not pressing the button to go downstairs (lol) Cartel Warlords: Getting thrown into a wall Styrak: Standing in lightning DF: Nefra (NiM only): Nightmare cleave not hitting enough people, offtank not getting enough stacks Draxus: Dismantlers swipe attack (HM+) Grob'thok: Standing in the magnet (NiM) Corruptor Zero: Sticking 2 mines together (NiM only) Brontes: Standing in lightning, ball getting to 20 stacks (NiM only) DP: Bestia: Tentacle exploding (Pretty sure its NiM only) Tyrans: Falling off the edge with <33% health, not cleansing a DM (NiM only) Calphayus: Not going to the past, seed dying, not killing crystals fast enough, going to the same phase twice (HM/NiM), taking too many relics to kill boss in the end (HM/NiM), not killing the ball in phase 2 future (NiM), taking too long to get the relic to the alter (NiM) Raptus: Falling off the edge Dread Council: Deathmarks (HM+), Falling off the edge with too little health, standing in lightning Ravagers: Master Blaster: Falling off the edge hitting the wall not getting shackled in last phase (HM) Coratanni + Ruugar Ricochet Shot not done properly Temple of Sacrifice: Underlurker: Standing under a rock (you'd be surprised how often this happens in HM, damn slow) Revan: Well... I believe this fight has about 30 million insta-kills, but KBN pointed out pretty much all of them. Anyway, if I missed any, feel free to fix my mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzluPasta Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I thought bads wanted to do story ops to see the story and didn't want loot. Why do you want them to nerf NIM ops if you aren't able to do them ? There is no story difference there, only loot. But you obviously don't need it. Edited August 30, 2015 by MuzluPasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 NiM Ops are supposed to be difficult. The 1-shots are there to stop you from screwing up positioning or failing to follow mechanics, something that SM and some HM fights don't worry about. In the history of SWTOR, here are the 1-shots from SM -> NiM (off the top of my head) EV: The only 1-shot in this is in the Soa fight. If you aren't standing on the outside ring, chances are you will die to fall damage when the platforms phase starts KP: Falling off the edge into the lava on the rancor. Suprisingly, not a 1HKO EC: Here's where the 1-shots started actually coming in: Tanks - HM/NiM Double Destruction Minefield - Standing in a mine (surprisingly can be resisted now) Kephess HM - Tank swap mechanic Kephess NiM - 2 people dying = auto-wipe TFB: Writhing Horror: Tanks getting too many stacks (HM/NiM) Dread Guards: Hard Enrage (NiM) Operator IX: Failing too many cores (HM/any failures in NiM) Operator IX: Failing to stand in the correct colour when he's shielded(HM/NiM) Operator IX: Colour Deletion (HM/NiM) (anything later I haven't actually done D:) SnV: Dashroode: Getting stuck in the desert without a shield, shield being destroyed by adds to quickly (well its not an insta-kill...) Titan 6: Failing to hide behind a rock (HM/NiM) Thrasher: Not killing a sniper Ops Chief: Taking too long to engage boss, attacking a team with too many people Olok the Shadow: Not pressing the button to go downstairs (lol) Cartel Warlords: Getting thrown into a wall Styrak: Standing in lightning DF: Nefra (NiM only): Nightmare cleave not hitting enough people, offtank not getting enough stacks Draxus: Dismantlers swipe attack (HM+) Grob'thok: Standing in the magnet (NiM) Corruptor Zero: Sticking 2 mines together (NiM only) Brontes: Standing in lightning, ball getting to 20 stacks (NiM only) DP: Bestia: Tentacle exploding (Pretty sure its NiM only) Tyrans: Falling off the edge with <33% health, not cleansing a DM (NiM only) Calphayus: Not going to the past, seed dying, not killing crystals fast enough, going to the same phase twice (HM/NiM), taking too many relics to kill boss in the end (HM/NiM), not killing the ball in phase 2 future (NiM), taking too long to get the relic to the alter (NiM) Raptus: Falling off the edge Dread Council: Deathmarks (HM+), Falling off the edge with too little health, standing in lightning Ravagers: Master Blaster: Falling off the edge hitting the wall not getting shackled in last phase (HM) Coratanni + Ruugar Ricochet Shot not done properly Temple of Sacrifice: Underlurker: Standing under a rock (you'd be surprised how often this happens in HM, damn slow) Revan: Well... I believe this fight has about 30 million insta-kills, but KBN pointed out pretty much all of them. Anyway, if I missed any, feel free to fix my mistakes. Like I said, it's overused. Don't get me wrong, I support NIM mode, just think there should be more mech rather than keep increase the 1 shot mech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 I thought bads wanted to do story ops to see the story and didn't want loot. Why do you want them to nerf NIM ops if you aren't able to do them ? There is no story difference there, only loot. But you obviously don't need it. I don't want them to nerf NIM, I want them to not overuse 1-shot mech to increase the difficulty because it's not the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Like I said, it's overused. Don't get me wrong, I support NIM mode, just think there should be more mech rather than keep increase the 1 shot mech Otherwise we would have people healing through stupid and not actually learning the fights. Otherwise it would be: "Cleanse DM plz?" " Nah Bro who cares I'll just overheal it and not learn mechanics put in the Op to make it challenging and just faceroll" "Ah that's right no one shot means I can be that guy who stands in **** all the time!" GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 You realize they're not making NM operations for this game anymore. It's been pointed out to you in other threads recently. What are you trying to accomplish by posting this? I've been wondering this the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Otherwise we would have people healing through stupid and not actually learning the fights. Otherwise it would be: "Cleanse DM plz?" " Nah Bro who cares I'll just overheal it and not learn mechanics put in the Op to make it challenging and just faceroll" "Ah that's right no one shot means I can be that guy who stands in **** all the time!" GG Who said 1-shot is the only real "mech"? There are a lot of mech can make u not be able to heal through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've been wondering this the whole time. I don't hate NIM ops, I just dislike overuse 1-shot mech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Who said 1-shot is the only real "mech"? There are a lot of mech can make u not be able to heal through it. If you can't heal through iys still more forgiving than a 1 shot. Standing in the Lightening Hands on Phase 2 of Council one shots you to force a tight DPS check during a positioning challenge. NiM is suppose to be unforgiving with 1 shots. If there's any chance to live it is not living up to its name Nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 If you can't heal through iys still more forgiving than a 1 shot. Standing in the Lightening Hands on Phase 2 of Council one shots you to force a tight DPS check during a positioning challenge. NiM is suppose to be unforgiving with 1 shots. If there's any chance to live it is not living up to its name Nightmare. There is nothing wrong with that. Many "more forgiving" mech can mix to be a very very tough encounter. No, there are many tough raid content without the overuse of 1-shot. If a game rely on 1 shot too much , then its raid encounter would dry out of ideas quickly. NIM DP phase 2 was a good example, they had to recycle mech from SnV and DF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 There is nothing wrong with that. Many "more forgiving" mech can mix to be a very very tough encounter. No, there are many tough raid content without the overuse of 1-shot. If a game rely on 1 shot too much , then its raid encounter would dry out of ideas quickly. NIM DP phase 2 was a good example, they had to recycle mech from SnV and DF. And so? It's the same as you are fighting those Bosses again? Yes slightly repetive but in the aspect of the encounter it makes sense. But but you missed my main point. Please give an example of such an encounter that is more challenging than one with 1 shot mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) And so? It's the same as you are fighting those Bosses again? Yes slightly repetive but in the aspect of the encounter it makes sense. But but you missed my main point. Please give an example of such an encounter that is more challenging than one with 1 shot mechanics. Repetive is not a good to a boss encounter, especially if they need to recycle old ops mech as the toughest part of a new NIM ops. Underlurker? You don't get my point I think. It's easy to dry out of ideas if a game rely too much on 1-shot mech to make difficulty, new ops will just come with more and more 1-shot mech and it's easy to hit the top. NIM DP already proved this. Edited August 30, 2015 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Repetive is not a good to a boss encounter, especially if they need to recycle old ops mech as the toughest part of a new NIM ops. Underlurker? You don't get my point I think. It's easy to dry out of ideas if a game rely too much on 1-shot mech to make difficulty, new ops will just come with more and more 1-shot mech and it's easy to hit the top. NIM DP already proved this. DF and SnV Mechanics Present= Cause Styrak and Brontes are back from the dead... UL are you serious? UL is a joke of a fight compared to any NiM including that Giant Dummy Parse Nefra. New ideas are always present such as Revan HM. Staleness is when new Ops aren't released. The mechanics of one shot aren't stale unless every fight I'm being colored deleted. But guess what no more NiM is being made so point is irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 But guess what no more NiM is being made so point is irrelevant Bioware has stated that the difficulty of Temple of Sacrifice and The Ravagers in Hard Mode is meant to closely resemble the Nightmare Difficulty of All of the previous Operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 DF and SnV Mechanics Present= Cause Styrak and Brontes are back from the dead... UL are you serious? UL is a joke of a fight compared to any NiM including that Giant Dummy Parse Nefra. New ideas are always present such as Revan HM. Staleness is when new Ops aren't released. The mechanics of one shot aren't stale unless every fight I'm being colored deleted. But guess what no more NiM is being made so point is irrelevant It doesn't mean they should use similar mech, it should be different. UL is very tough compare to most of the NIM. Also New ops don't have many 1-shot mech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GethOvermind Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 It doesn't mean they should use similar mech, it should be different. UL is very tough compare to most of the NIM. Also New ops don't have many 1-shot mech. "tough" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 "tough" Yes, many NIM bosses aren't really hard compare to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 It doesn't mean they should use similar mech, it should be different. UL is very tough compare to most of the NIM. Also New ops don't have many 1-shot mech. UL: No tank swaps Can go 5 DPS with no consequences 3.2k DPS check (Bestia NiM had a similar check at 55!) Can cheese a major mechanic (Sonic rebound) Slow stops when adds die. Can DPS behind rock Healing check is easy One class can be OP in that fight with little effort (PT AP) UL is hard.... Lol UL is one of the easiest fights in HM. It's much easier than Torque. As for one shots say Hi to Revan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yes, many NIM bosses aren't really hard compare to it. I assume they aren't when your 5 levels over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASOLIZ Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I assume they aren't when your 5 levels over... Just think how ppl's opinion of the lvl 55 NiM ops will change when they're scaled up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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