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Solo Players punished with Operations?


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Hey there,

First of all, I really love this game, but I'm not loving the fact that we need to complete story-based OPs with others, which I feel hurts Solo players like myself. Why weren't we given an option to allow combat droids to assist us like the two FPs introduced by the most recent add-on? Why didn't the OPs have a solo-only mode, less loot, but doable? A lot of soloists like myself have to give up ever having Dread Guard armor because of the need to complete the OPs with other people.

 

Why am I a solo player? Due to the lack of etiquette my groupies have had in the past regarding loot. It is unfair that we may potentially be doing a OP for ONE SPECIFIC ITEM and then someone's greed gets in the way and they snag it even if they can't use it just because they want to sell it. (It has happened before, and it sucked.)

 

And the rare times I grit my teeth and actually queue for an OP, someone always cancels, and the wait time is reset. ***?

 

So because of this, it is impossible for solo players to experience the complete story, due to the OPs having a lot of story-based content. I finished Oricon, and I was waiting to fight the Dread Masters, looking forward to it, then the quest chain abruptly ended, or so I thought. I do not like that we need to have others assist us if we are to complete the entire story.

 

I am very sorry if I seem like I am complaining about this, which I kinda/sorta am, but not because I want to complain, it's because I really enjoy this game and it sucks that it's impossible for me to complete the entire story. Due to the fact that I work two full-time jobs and go to school online, I rarely have time to play this game as it is, and I am far too busy to wait around for people to make up their minds about whether or not they want to group up for Ops. I bit the bullet and joined an OP guild, but they have yet to do any.

 

Are there others who feel similarly?

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Sorry for my bad english, it ist not my native language.

 

1. This is an MMORPG. So of course it is maked to play with others.

2. I don't understand what you are complaining. You say that someone has get an token and sell it? If yes i would give BW the Info that there is a person who cheats the game becouse you can't sell token items.

3. Don't que for OP's in the Group Finder. Go to the fleet. Their will allways someone searching for an Operation. And they normaly have an Rule how you can roll on the Items. Mostly one token per player.

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You say you want it for the story but then say you want the stuff and peoples greed gets in the way. You have no idea what they are going to do with that piece.

 

An Operation is meant to be done as a group. What makes Ops Ops is complex and challenging mechanics that test all members in a multi role setting.

 

Now, should they do what SoR does and have a solo alternate route for the final mission. Sure why not it allows variety of play. Making solo Ops is much trickier than you think. First you have to get rid of all mechanics that require multiple people. Then make sure that everything is balanced. This is a waste of Devs resources when you can provide an alernate solo path.

 

If you want to see the story in the Op stop joining pugs and get in a guild.

Edited by FerkWork
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Sorry for my bad english, it ist not my native language.

 

1. This is an MMORPG. So of course it is maked to play with others.

2. I don't understand what you are complaining. You say that someone has get an token and sell it? If yes i would give BW the Info that there is a person who cheats the game becouse you can't sell token items.

3. Don't que for OP's in the Group Finder. Go to the fleet. Their will allways someone searching for an Operation. And they normaly have an Rule how you can roll on the Items. Mostly one token per player.

 

No worries, I'm Russian myself. :) Thank you for the reply.

 

1. I do play with others when I must, as stated above, but the whole dynamics of loot disbursement made me a solo player, due to the greed of others.

 

2. Because when a Trooper loots a piece of Will equipment just to sell, then it's unfair. And by selling, I mean to a random vendor, due to the fact that you can't sell these items on the GTM, due to the fact that they bind on pick-up.

 

3. That is actually a really good idea! Never really occurred to me, maybe I am braindead. ;)

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You say you want it for the story but then say you want the stuff and peoples greed gets in the way. You have no idea what they are going to do with that piece.

 

An Operation is meant to be done as a group. What makes Ops Ops is complex and challenging mechanics that test all members in a multi role setting.

 

Now, should they do what SoR does and have a solo alternate route for the final mission. Sure why not it allows variety of play. Making solo Ops is much trickier than you think. First you have to get rid of all mechanics that require multiple people. Then make sure that everything is balanced. This is a waste of Devs resources when you can provide an alernate solo path.

 

If you want to see the story in the Op stop joining pugs and get in a guild.

 

 

Ugh, I know, that's actually a really good point regarding the need to do multiple things at once.

And yes I do know what they are using it for, I request the item and they say, 'I need the money'.

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Make friends, join a guild, don't pug with strangers.

 

If you don't want to do that. Then join a premade guild run that is a little short. Still could end up with jerks, but safer than joining a pug where you have 8 strangers that care nothing for anyone in the group. At least some people care about the reputation of their guild.

 

Solo operations would punish healers and tanks. It also will not solve your real issue. Jerks, only you can solve that issue, by finding fair people to play with.

Edited by mikebevo
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If you have a droid that does all the work for you in a scaled down, mechanic-less version of an operation that you can literally sleep walk through, you dont need any loot.

 

Some of the people on these forums are absolutely unbelievable...

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This is contradictory. You want story, but you want the loot more. So if it's story then your position could potential be valid in that an operation is not a solo-able event so you are locked out (even though the operation is meant for group play at it's core). But, the whole idea that you're against the loot systems and that's the real reason you're not into group play means that you just want a work around so you can have everything you want no matter what. I mean I get it. It does suck when you lose a roll to someone when you know you can really use the piece. And, very very rarely, and it's rare, will a player need something just to sell it (in the new operations). There is one big tip I'd suggest, and the one minor, if you decide to continue to pug with just random groups instead of finding a raiding home base per say:

 

Before the raid starts (and I mean while group is forming, find out what the loot rules are. If the group is a FFA, maybe that's not your style. Leave that group before you pull the first boss so you don't waste the lockout. Find another group that has the one set piece per player rule.

 

Don't do the group finder solo. Go to the fleet, get into a group that's preforming for the group finder run.

 

 

If you're concerned about loot from old raids, don't be. They are really vendor trash right now anyway. If you're in an old raid, just know that an added function of the gear that drops besides "gearing" is to be sold for money. If you're doing the new raids, the loot rules are most likely much different and more your style. Just as somoene can't tell you how to use the loot you win, you can't tell them how to use it either. They very well could have an alt that needs the gear, or they want to min max. Those are acceptable when it comes to needing on things.

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When you say punished...

 

The gear that drops from operations... is used to help clear more operations.

 

It is NOT needed to do anything outside operations.

 

Killing daily mobs?

 

Killing world bosses?

 

Nothing from operations is required for that.

 

Fighting other players?

 

NOPE, that's improved by solo playing in PVP and getting PVP gear.

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When you say punished...

 

The gear that drops from operations... is used to help clear more operations.

 

It is NOT needed to do anything outside operations.

 

.....

 

Fighting other players?

 

NOPE, that's improved by solo playing in PVP and getting PVP gear.

 

Tell that too half the people in queue. RiP that BiS PT yesterday :p

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Why didn't the OPs have a solo-only mode, less loot, but doable?

 

It is because it is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game where the multiplayer is the keyword. It is simply designed to be played with other people.

 

I think Bioware is real nice to let some of the content be soloable, it is actually more solo content then I have ever seen in a MMO before.

Edited by Icestar
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In a way, I do agree with the idea that putting story conclusions behind Ops is unfair.

I'm a solo player and story player first. I have neither the time and the desire to read detailed tactics and guides for fights. I'll even go further and say this: I don't play for the challenge. I play for story and I am still bitter that, for the longest of time, the ending to Illum was closed off to me (I'm sorry but the planet was mostly dead when I went there and as a DPS, finding a spot in Group Finder for the two Illum flashpoints (In chronological order no less) was such a chore I just waited until SoR released and I hit lvl 60 to solo it.)

In fact, one of the most interesting parts of the story for an old Kotor fan like me was closed off at release. There wasn't any Group Finder available for the Revan story flashpoints. And since I'm uncomfortable approaching people to form or join a group, I was rightly screwed there.

I'm not complaining about Ops having story content, just about the idea that major story arcs are made incomprehensible and worse impossible to complete to story players. I'm looking at the Dread War arc. When Oricon dropped, I had never played Belsavis Imp side and I had skipped the release of Section X. So when I was told that these big bad Sith were a huge threat, I could only answer "Sorry, who?".

Then I played the quest line on the planet. And it ended on a H2+. As said above, I dislike grouping because I don't like talking to faceless people whom I'll never talk with again, that's just who I am. But in the end, I managed to find another guy and we did the H2+. I honestly expected another Heroic, maybe 4, to down the Dread Masters and just like that, at the end of a mostly solo questline, the game dropped in my face a mandatory Ops.

And that's the problem. It was obligatory to see the end of the story. If I wanted to see the conclusion of this arc for my character, I had to team up with 7 to 15 other dudes. To finish my OWN story, I had to play something that was the very antithesis of it. Something that demanded I forego the uniqueness of my character to play with others.

SoR offered a nice alternative, giving us a (sure too easy) solo fight against Revan after a slate of daily quests while offering for people who raid an alternative.

That's the thing, choice. On Oricon, I wasn't given a choice. It was "Ops or screw you". On Illum? "Group or screw you".

And yet, I'd say TOR isn't that bad about mandatory raids to see key story content. WoW takes that cake and gulps it down in a single move. Literally every expansion ends on a raid that, if you never played, you are assumed to have participated in anyway and the next story launches without you seeing the ending of the previous if you didn't raid.

 

So yeah, in more way than one, Ops at the end of solo questlines are unwelcome. Ops with their own, self-contained stories are fine. Even story arcs made of Ops are fine IF there is no solo content tucked in there.

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Regarding story.

 

For all operations except one, you only have to kill the final boss and you can then see the concluding cutscene. Scum and villainy you have to kill last 2. You may miss one or 2 cutscenes during the Op, but that's life.

 

On my server at least, many groups abuse lockouts to farm ultimate comms. They usually advertise "LFM DF SM last boss lockout" or something. So you only need to wait until the day your particular Op is featured and look for one of those groups.

 

That's how I've done it for many alts, that I don't raid on enough to set aside time for full runs.

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Regarding story.

 

For all operations except one, you only have to kill the final boss and you can then see the concluding cutscene. Scum and villainy you have to kill last 2. You may miss one or 2 cutscenes during the Op, but that's life.

 

On my server at least, many groups abuse lockouts to farm ultimate comms. They usually advertise "LFM DF SM last boss lockout" or something. So you only need to wait until the day your particular Op is featured and look for one of those groups.

 

That's how I've done it for many alts, that I don't raid on enough to set aside time for full runs.

 

Scum & Vilainy and others are fine. They are mostly self-contained stories. I'm mostly ranting about the Dread War Arc inclusion of a solo quest line. It should never have. Or solo versions of majors bosses of all Dread War Ops should have been playable.

It's not about having to do all bosses or a few, my rant is strictly about imposing Ops that lock out story endings at all.

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I pretty much agree with the Dread Ops, but don't care about the other Ops. I don't feel I'm missing out on any terribly interesting story arcs by not doing the other Ops, but I was bummed to get to the point on Oricon when the story is getting really good and they gate it with two Ops.

Sort of like the end of the Macrobinoculars and Seeker missions, followed by the relative beginning of the HK mission (forcing us to go through Outlaw's Den). I like the story arcs and want to see them through, but the best parts become gated by Heroic 4's and forced PvP, and not enough people are doing these missions anymore to get same-day groups together to finish the content (worst example was literally two weeks of spamming LFG for the Shroud missions on Nar Shadaa before finally getting a group, and I have never been able to get a group together for the Ilum Seeker Heroic 4 mission across multiple characters)

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@OP, you say you don't want to join operation groups because of people needing on gear you want, but then you complain you're missing out of story.

 

If you join operation groups for story, you shouldn't really care about the loot you do/don't get. Do it for the story. Enjoy the story.

 

If you want fancy gear like the stuff that drops in nightmare versions of operations, sorry, that's reserved for the people who work as a team and earn it. It's not for some baby hiding behind the almighty Jesus Droid as it stomps you through an operation.

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Why on earth do you play a Massively Multyplayer Online game if you just want to play by yourself ?! I don't get that point. It's fine to have the conclusion of the arc in ops because, logically, all the people playing MMO know that it's a type of game where you have to play in groups and want that. I get the point that you're disappointed because you don't know the conslusion of some part of the story, but didn't you expected that in the first place ? I mean, that's what MMO do, seems logical to me. Edited by LudhaninRolgge
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Why on earth do you play a Massively Multyplayer Online game if you just want to play by yourself ?! I don't get that point. It's fine to have the conclusion of the arc in ops because, logically, all the people playing MMO know that it's a type of game where you have to play in groups and want that. I get the point that you're disappointed because you don't know the conslusion of some part of the story, but didn't you expected that in the first place ? I mean, that's what MMO do, seems logical to me.

 

Remember most people who complain about these things are not MMO veterans. I honestly was going to never play this game when they were hyping it in the beginning simply because it was an MMO, and I had never played one before and did not care to start then. What got me to finally try it was the reviews and people talking about how much of a single-player experience it was, and it was made specifically for people like me. I played the first year and a half 100% solo across three stories and never once opened the chat window, and it was everything that was promised for people who wanted the solo experience and I loved it.

 

So the frustration is mostly reserved for people like me who enjoyed the game so much to get to the end and do endgame content that starts out solo until the last two or three missions of the arc, when it becomes gated (and if you've only played solo til lvl 50 or 55 and suddenly they want to throw you into an Operation just to finish the story, well, veterans of these forums know why that is not always going to work out well for that person unless they're lucky and in a great guild)

 

(BTW, I love grouping up now and interacting with other players, but I completely understand anyone who hits the wall like I did when I first started)

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A lot of soloists like myself have to give up ever having Dread Guard armor because of the need to complete the OPs with other people.

 

I think you might have meant something else than Dread Guard armor, since you could the same armor skin (with a different colour, but you can dye that) as Verpine gear.

 

So did you mean the Crest of the Dread Master? If so, then I dispute your point, as that's supposed to be an Operation reward.

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Remember most people who complain about these things are not MMO veterans. I honestly was going to never play this game when they were hyping it in the beginning simply because it was an MMO, and I had never played one before and did not care to start then. What got me to finally try it was the reviews and people talking about how much of a single-player experience it was, and it was made specifically for people like me. I played the first year and a half 100% solo across three stories and never once opened the chat window, and it was everything that was promised for people who wanted the solo experience and I loved it.

 

So the frustration is mostly reserved for people like me who enjoyed the game so much to get to the end and do endgame content that starts out solo until the last two or three missions of the arc, when it becomes gated (and if you've only played solo til lvl 50 or 55 and suddenly they want to throw you into an Operation just to finish the story, well, veterans of these forums know why that is not always going to work out well for that person unless they're lucky and in a great guild)

 

(BTW, I love grouping up now and interacting with other players, but I completely understand anyone who hits the wall like I did when I first started)

 

I'm not a MMO veteran either. SWTOR is my 1st one and I've been playing for 7 month. I got to admit story got me into the game, but since I know what an MMO is, I never fooled myself into thinking I'll be able to to everything by myself. I did all the republic Heroic, even if I wasn't in a guild. MMOs are group games, so I asked if someone wanted to help me, that's it. Same thing goes when I started raiding. Since I was in a very small guild that didn't raided, everytime I saw a group forming for a raid I'd like to do, I'd go and speak tell the group leader I was avalaible.

You complaining about not being able to see the end of an arc because you don't want to play the game how it was designed seems to me like if people were complaining because they couldn't see their character in an FPS. That's kinda how the genre in which the game fits is supposed to be. Sure story is a nice flavor, but story doesn't make the game solo. Since when MMO can't have great story ?

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I don't care about loot. I'm a solo-er and I can't say how disappointing it is to have story locked behind an OP, especially something as meaningful as an ending. It's pretty sad playing to a certain point, only to never get to see the ending. If they insist on putting the endings into OPs like they did with the Dread Masters, then I would really appreciate a solo way so I can enjoy the cutscreens and see my toon interact and get the ending they played towards. It would be really nice to see, and like I said, I don't even care if there is loot, myself.
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I played most of the ops recently(due to the fact that level 50 ops are pretty easy right now) with a small group, and I enjoyed them a lot, both the environment and the story.

 

I think it would be great if there was a solo mode with a droid - and no loot. People would probably be doing those solo ops only once or twice, but they'd get the story, and enjoy it, and enjoy it at their own pace.

 

I enjoyed playing in a group, especially for a guild run with TS, but the challenges and multiple wipes(hello, Quartermaster Bulo!) are just not for me. I'd welcome a solo mode with a droid gladly.

 

P.S. Revan's "solo mode" is not the same, because you still lose the opportunity to see beautiful environments and meet HK-47 for one last time.

Edited by Kulyok
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