Since 3.0.2., ultimate coms have been made too difficult to get, and GF doesn't work well for DPS. (Please read on for SUGGESSTIONS.)

For me, the thing I log on to do is gear my toons. I'm just an independent player. I'm in a small guild, which I like, as I do not prefer the larger ones I've been in. So to do raids, to get Ultimate Coms, I have to join or form a PUG.

I am on daily. I'm a Founder, and 60, about half 198s, half 192s (most earned before 3.0.2.). Yet, since 3.0.2., I have found that I'm only able to earn about 10 UCs a week. Only once has any PUG I've been in been able to finish RAV (they get hung up on Boss #2), and none have made it past the first 2 bosses in TOS.

I'm sure that some PUGs have been more successful, but unless someone brings in people he knows can do it, I know from being there, that it's rare that PUGs actually make it all the way through.

AS WELL...

I am DPS. So when I queue in Group Finder, it rarely pops. Sometimes I've stat there for 3 hours, in front of my TV (plays there as monitor), doing other things, waiting for the GF to pop. Everyone knows why. It's because Ops are structured for a certain tank/heals/DPS ratio, and there are relatively few TANKS and HEALS, compared to DPS needed for Ops.

Sooooo..... SOLUTION SUGGESTION

(1) While I realize there is value in having some Ops that almost no one can do, so best players can be challenged, other players, like myself, are basically finding it not working to try to just enjoy gearing a toon. It's about providing a service as a business that people are willing to pay for, and me, sitting on Fleet for hours waiting for GF to pop does nothing for me. (Also, doing Weeklies orr other things that give Elites do nothing for me, as my gearing is above that.)

(2) Both RAV and TOS, which provide some UCs, require Tanks and Heals do so, but most subscribers prefer to be DPS, meaning most of the time, DPS CAN'T GET INTO GF RAIDS.

What about providing another Operation in SWTOR, of the same level as RAV and TOS, which would be structured to do only by DPS roles, so we can at least DO SOMETHING instead of stand there and wait. Let us earn some Ultimate Coms from it. It's easy to do, a matter of structuring parameters for the raid. Let us have 8 and/or 16m raids, SM and HM, that could be done without Tanks and Heals, so we can get into GF.

One view on this, I've heard, is likeunto, "If you want to get a raid via GF, then become a tank or heals." But that kind of misses the point, doesn't it? Because it's not about paying to do something you don't want to do.

Most people who pay money to play SWTOR prefer to be DPS, so why not let us do some raids that allow a higher percentage of DPS, if not all? Is even just ONE too much to ask? To get UCs via GF?

Thank you

They have done what you suggested (to a certain extend)....16m group finder

It changed the Tank/Heal/DPS ratio from 2/2/4 to 2/4/10.

Increased the DPS percentage from 50% to 63%.

This game is designed with the trinity fighting mechanics. There are other games with 100% dps.... e.g. first person shooter.

While I'm not certain making 8+man tactical flashpoints is a great idea, I can at least agree with you on one thing, and that is that the gearing speed post 3.0 is much, much slower compared to pre 3.0. However, if I remember correctly, this was also the case when 2.0 launched.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing for the game, although from a personal p.o.v. I'm having difficulties finding enough things to do in the game, and a few friends have said similar things. Stuff reset, you go in and play for a few days, then you go play another game until servers has reset again.

As another said, the rate of return on ultimate comms is how it's been most of the game. You say you're a founder, but perhaps have really bad memory beyond the past couple months when ultimate comms rained.

DPS had no trouble prior to 3.0, so that suggests abandoning the trinity is not needed. So the obvious difference is in difficulty of content and the ability to suffice with pug DPS. Bioware has data, and will decide if a sufficient number of people are clearing content right now, or if they need to seriously nerf sm Rav and ToS.

Abandoning trinity would be stupid of them (because tanks/healers would then be ************ they can't get into groups). So if they don't nerf, you will have to make some changes.

Tactical flashpoints award Ultimate comms (4 for the weekly); 4 DPS could do that. Ultimate comm gear is bad, and only needed for the high end stuff. You do high end stuff, you get high end (lol @ Ult being high end) gear.

To be fair, not everyone does HM or NiM ops, so ultimate comm gear is the best they can and desire to get. If that's how they play the game it's not for you to criticize.

People play games to have fun. Clearly, playing tank is not fun to a whole lot of people.

I do not understand this. I have five level 60 tanks. Three are 'Pub and two are Imp. But just because I don't understand something doesn't the point invalid. So the answer of "just level up a tank" is no help here. Why play a game you don't enjoy?

Tactical flashpoints were a terrible addition to the game. They really dumbed it down. Surely we have all been grouped with a "KDY Graduate" at some point. You know, the players that have no understanding of their role, class or how to do group content. Sure they have always been there, but thanks to KDY there a lot more of them. I cant imagine how much damage tactical ops would do.

My main is a healer and my second toon is a tank. As a result of all the "KDY Grads" I rarely pug now.

But story mode operations that can't or are very difficult to clear in a pug should be rethought. Individual mechanics (broken or otherwise) that need voice chat of some sort, belong in hard mode. I am sure there are other ways to increase difficulty while still allowing for pugs. After all, we all want the challenge of new content.

They have done what you suggested (to a certain extend)....16m group finder

It changed the Tank/Heal/DPS ratio from 2/2/4 to 2/4/10.

Increased the DPS percentage from 50% to 63%.

^This helped a lot.

And BW are looking at doing more. Check Musco's post http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7879116

As to how long it will take, who knows. But they are at least listening to us on this. The answer is hopefully on the list of Musco's because it certainly isn't tactical operations.

To be fair, not everyone does HM or NiM ops, so ultimate comm gear is the best they can and desire to get. If that's how they play the game it's not for you to criticize.

Not really. SM drops (192) are better than 198 comm gear. But the people who don't want to do HM or NiM ops don't seem to understand that; apparently seeing the big number 198 is better than seeing the big numbers next to power and crit

Reading this post again. Another problem seems to be more about the lack of content and the structure of progression. Adjusting the incentives (comms) may fix the symptoms not the cause.....

I heard: "elite gear do nothing for me", "as my gear level is above that"

So making ulti gear easier/faster to get and you are fully ulti-geared in two weeks time; then what? Ulti-gear will do nothing for you.

Founders would remember pre-1.6 there was no comms gear (past daily); pre-1.4 there was hm fp lockout.

Actually, the reason that "elite gear do nothing for me" was because elite-gear were made easier/faster to get. It seems streamlining the progression only push the problem further up chain. More content is the ultimate solution.

it's a good thing, so all those baddies dps unable to get out of aoe and pop dcds can be pug fodder for a longer time. what would you do if you'd be by now full 198?

This question exsists since beginnig, and no one has a answer. Collecting raidgear without interest to use it, because they are not intersted in raiding.

This question exsists since beginnig, and no one has a answer. Collecting raidgear without interest to use it, because they are not intersted in raiding.

Because its the only form of progress you can see in the game when everything else is maxed out.

Therefore you need gear progression.

Because its the only form of progress you can see in the game when everything else is maxed out.

Therefore you need gear progression.

But does the best tools mean, that you have earned some progress? I mean, if i have the beste tools in my fabric, but i am unable to use them, because didn't receive any contract?

old dread master gear or even dread forged gear is better that the 198 comms

only go for 3 items max from comms vendor

1, offhand, just the hilt/barrel/armoring

2. ear

3. when you have 6/7 of the new set bonus, get the 7th item from comms vendor and just use the armoring

as for the comms themselves, puggs shouldnt get top tier gear, even bad top tier gear from doing LOWER tier content

you can still get comms from DF/DP nim if you dont have a group that can clear the new ops

you can still get comms from DF/DP nim if you dont have a group that can clear the new ops

I doubt you can clear NiM Dreads if you can't clear the new stuff on SM.

Hi all. I'm the Original Poster for this thread.

The problem is, as a result of all things, I'm sitting in my chair, standing on fleet (with the toon), doing nothing: reading Gen Chat to see how much interest there may be in a pug op, sitting in GF which doesn't pop for hours.

SWTOR is designed for trinity play, but it doesn't have to be, or not all of it. SWTOR isn't some situation in RL that we're subject to, that we have to put up with if we don't like it. It's a game for fun, a product a company produces to entertain and to make money. We customers/gamers subscribe to play.

I've had tanks and heals. This toon I'm talking about here (founder, half 198s/half 192s), was heals for a long time, but I was just doing the heals for a guild that wanted it of me, and, truly, I prefer the dps role. I wasn't enjoying myself, so I switched her (gear and all), and she's been dps for a long time. I know the other roles, but I don't prefer them. Why should I do them just so I can raid with them? Do something I don't like so I can do something I don't like?

The reason I don't HM or NIM is because, over these years, I've never found a guild I enjoyed. (I am in a small guild, now, which is good, though can't do raids, itself as too small.) While there are certainly a lot of good people who play, there are enough other things that go on that I simply don't enjoy and don't want to pay for. I'm in the game for distraction, after RL, and for enjoyment. I have left guilds for a varieity of reasons: I don't like some people using "***" as a pejorative to slam people; I don't care for some people to make references to drugs; I am not going to go off-game to fill out an application (ridiculous, because I could lie) or to join a website; my voice is recognizable, so I don't prefer to use TS/Vent, and I also don't like the comments and assumptions some players express in raids when I listen and don't use a mike. Put it all together, and, while everyone thinks their guild is good, I have found I do not enjoy the larger ones, preferring the small one I finally settled into.

So I'm standing on Fleet. Sometimes I form an Operation, sometimes I join another -- but these are pugs, and they rarely succeed at Rav or Tos. Whatever factors involved, they usually don't, and I'm left wasting my time, as I don't enjoy that process. Pugs can't do HM or NIM. They usually can't even do SM.

So I seek Ultimate Coms, for the best gear I am likely to reasonably get. If I collect enough 192/set gear, fine. I may stack them in a corner until I have enough to matter.

Regardless, I am a player with an active RL. I enter the game for distraction and enjoyment, and I'm very good at what I do in it. I can make Kwai Chang Kane look like a newbie with this toon. I usu know where to stand, what to shoot at, when to switch --- rock and roll.

Yet the reason I'm not finding raids much is because there are a much larger percentage of DPS in the game than percentages allowed in Operations. The 2/4/10 trinity ratio, however improved, does not include most DPS, which is why we're sitting on Fleet for hours waiting for GF (important because of the extra Ultimate Coms that come from its use) or forming or getting into ssome pug on Fleet which disintegrates after a couple bosses because most people have even more to do in RL than I do and don't play that often.

Yes, SWTOR IS DESIGNED for trinity play, but it doesn't have to be. It's as simple as forming a new Op that allows for DPS role.

It's a product a company sells for money. In this case millions.

If a company makes cars, and only makes SUVs and Limousines, but people walk in the door wanting a sports car, should it be asserted the customer should changes his taste? It can actually be good business for the company to listen to customer desires and begin producing a sports car also.

Because the way it is, now, my interest in SWTOR is waning, and I don't think that is desired. I think, instead, that SWTOR has listened to some of its most highly skilled gamers and chosen to go that way, not listening to the majority of us who play who want to do something we consider fun, also.

I'm one of those. I'm highly skilled in my role, as DPS on this toon. But I'm limited to SM by the distribution of roles preferred by other/mass gamers in SWTOR, the nature of PUGs, and the Ops that are provided. UCs have become very hard to get. If UC gear is not as good as highest set gear, then you need never fear I will be as good as you. But as a subscriber, I do want to progress my toon, and if I can't do that, without standing on Fleet for hours, etc., then I ask myself, why am I here?

I could go to another car company and see what they have to sell.

Yes, SWTOR IS DESIGNED for trinity play, but it doesn't have to be. It's as simple as forming a new Op that allows for DPS role.

 

It's a product a company sells for money. In this case millions.

 

If a company makes cars, and only makes SUVs and Limousines, but people walk in the door wanting a sports car, should it be asserted the customer should changes his taste? It can actually be good business for the company to listen to customer desires and begin producing a sports car also.

Sigh... the devs have done exactly what people asked for without much visions of their own.

People asked for barbie dream house; you got it; and barbie makeup kit is coming soon.

And there have been some people asking to turn the game into first person shooter. So god bless swtor.

Sigh... the devs have done exactly what people asked for without much visions of their own.

 

People asked for barbie dream house; you got it; and barbie makeup kit is coming soon.

 

And there have been some people asking to turn the game into first person shooter. So god bless swtor.

If holy trinity is making the game unenjoyable, there are lots of games that lack holy trinity. FPS was mentioned, if you must have multiplayer. There are also TONS of amazing single-player games out there.

If I were in your shoes, OP, I'd go play the huge list of Steam games that I have barely scratched the surface of. Or find a guild alliance that runs ops (there is one on Begeren Colony called Leftovers Raiding).

Personally, I love the trinity style of gameplay, as it encourages tactical/strategic thinking rather than zerging. I would rather not see the devs spend time trying to make more "tactical" (that's the word the devs use for content that requires no actual tactics) content.

Completely aside: OP, your posts are enjoyable to read and you state your arguments well. Thank you! I'm rather curious to know why we'd recognize your voice, but I won't ask as I'm sure you won't tell

As you don't want to look for a guild you could run ops with, maybe there is another solution. Make yourself known as a good player on your server, build connections to raiding guilds, help out if they are one player short and leave a good impression, they will ask you again instead of searching for a true rnd player that may be good but could also be really bad.

Usually people prefer playing with players they know or at least are known to pull their weight. On my server there are several well known players of all three roles, who are in no guild at all, but even NIM level guilds asks them if they have still IDs left to help out from time to time. They can raid whenever they want, because they are welcomed guests in every group, they don't even need to look for a group themselves, often enough the moment they get online they get several /w "do you want to come XY with us".

Building ops groups yourself as you are doing already is also a way to achieve your goal, of course there is a lot try and error involved, until you get to know how to build a successful group, but if you keep in contact with those players who did a good job, sooner or later you'll have a full group of players, who know what to do and the success will come.

A post in your server forum may help to find players interested in guild independent raiding too.

While I'm not certain making 8+man tactical flashpoints is a great idea, I can at least agree with you on one thing, and that is that the gearing speed post 3.0 is much, much slower compared to pre 3.0. However, if I remember correctly, this was also the case when 2.0 launched.

Not really, from what I recall it didn't take me very long to gear up when 2.0 hit. Where 3.0 has pretty much made Ultimate Comms non-existent unless you do the buggy new OPs (not all of us wish to do these).

It's compounded by the fact that Ultimate Comms gear is pretty worthless this time round with terrible stat allocations to try to artificially limit our dps.

It's actually so bad, that I'm not even bothering to run the content that would give me a few Ultimate Comms each week.

Like the idea of "Tactical Operations" though, sounds like fun.

I'm rather curious to know why we'd recognize your voice, but I won't ask as I'm sure you won't tell

I think they just mean that it's distinctive, so people will know right away if they've been in an op with OP before. Obviously, I could be wrong, but I can think of some people like that on my server.

Perjhaps an RP server would better suit you ? I'm on Vanjervalis Chain, and although I have TS installed, I *never* use any microphone ... And people are not commenting on that, as long as I listen. I type my questions in Chat, and I get answers, usually.

Some of my chars are in smaller guilds, and I have been helping out other guilds on a freelance leve, too. That is, I go into their raid, if they want me. Sometimes I'm even aked if I have some time to help out (that hasnn't happened too often lately because first, there's been too much going on in RL for me, and second - I just hate both Oricon OPs. I just hate them. It's to a great part a matter of taste, not mechanics or anything else. Just taste).

My guess ( it's a guess, mind you ! ) is, that "server cultures" differ vastly from one another.

My guess is, that PvE servers are about PvE competition, and PvP servers are about PvP competition - but RP ??? There is no competition regarding RP.

Of course, there still is PvE competition and bragging, because we either have PvE or PvP content,

but In my opinion people who RP are in some areas more forgiving. In other areas, they are not, as you might already have sorted out : They take the RP part more seriously than the PvP part or the PvE as such[(i] part. But all in all, that's still a guess from my side.

The only real problem I see there is that almost no-one seems to do "classic" OPs (Chamber, Denova; Karagga) nowadays anymore ... With Karagga being played most of these three, because it is the most accessible & most easy / fun OP.

BW have introduced TFP's for people to get more pops. BW have moved to 16man GF. BW have stated that story is more important now, and as a result moving away from traditional mmo's to allow for more individual play styles. BW have announced that they are looking at servers/pop times/play styles etc.

While I do admit that there room for improvement here from BW, but after that if you are still not happy with the trinity/trinity based content maybe, this is not the game for you.