*Forewarned, this is purely from a Progression PvE perspective. I will be the first to admit how "OP" the Vigilance/Vengeance spec is in PvP between our cooldowns and roots. *

 

So we are in the midst of yet another series of class changes with 2.10 dropping in early September. Currently, the Guardian DPS, specifically Vigilance/Vengeance, is lacking in comparison to the majority of mdps classes. Now, when I say this I am not talking purely about damage, but rather raid ability and utility. Beyond 2-3 bosses in the current tier of Nightmare content, Guardian/Juggernaut's faults truly shine. In a sense, a Guardian/Jugg DPS is little more than an Arsenal Mercenary at melee range. By this I mean we are forced to remain stationary every 10+ secs for Master Strike/Ravage. With the current necessary mobility in raids, it makes it extremely difficult to call the Guardian/Jugg DPS viable, or rather a better or comparable class option compared to Vanguards, Shadows or Sentinels.

 

Now, I've heard the argument that we have an off-taunt and armor debuff as a debate for including a Guard/Jugg DPS in a raid. While this is great for a 16-man group, in 8-man content, which is what the game from my perspective is deigned around, these utilities offer very little incentive to add us to a groups composition. I personally off-tank for 16-man Nightmare Bestia and the few times I have attempted 16-man Nightmare Council, but in a top tier progression 8-man group I dont believe I've ever seen a DPS have to tank beyond emergency tanking during a final burn phase. However in 8-man, a Sniper/Gunslinger is a better option than a Guard/Jugg, when comparing classes, for their range and steady damage along with their self cleanse, raid shield, and armor debuff.

 

So how can we change this? Being that mobility, from my perspective, is our biggest issue it is hard to change that without entirely redesigning the skill tree. However, I had a few ideas that I feel will increase our damage output to make us comparable to other Mdps classes to at the very least let us compete for raid spots until 3.0.

 

1) This, although my perspective has changed on it some based on conversations I've had, is an option to increase melee damage output. In the Rage skill tree, the Vigilance spec takes the tier ability called "Swift Slash" which increases Critical for Slash/Dispatch by 7.5%. Instead, we could make this a general melee critical increase to 6%. This would affect Master Strike, Overhead Slash, and Saber Throw along with the 2 ability mentioned now. Basically, this would steady out the spec enough that your crits during a raid will be less of a variable to your damage output.

 

2) Increasing the DoT damage by Overhead Slash, Blade Storm, and Plasma Brand. This, during heavily mobile fights, would allow the damage output to remain heavy even when we are forced to chase the boss. This could be increased either generally through the 2 DoTs created in the Skill tree and Plasma Brand or increasing the buff to DoTs by the "Keening" tier ability.

 

3) This is more of a raid boost than anything else. Currently, the Vigilance spec has no AOE reduction. Being that every fight in the current tier of content has an AOE ability hitting the raid, we could redesign the tier ability "Narrowed Focus" in the Vigilance tree to both generate focus and a have damage reduction for AOE damage. Although it doesnt increase our damage output, it would make the raid wide damage a smaller issue for the healers, thus making it easier on them to heal through tougher fights.

 

Now, I want to make this clear. I am not crying out 'MOAR DAMAGE PLZ' for the sake of wanting to be the flavor of the month class. I purely want to remain a viable DPS in an 8-man setting, and sadly right now, from a progression standpoint, we simply are not when competing for World/Server first kills. Any other suggestions from other DPS Guardian/Juggernauts would be appreciated.

 

I'd appreciate a response Bioware Combat Team.

 

Edit: Forgot to add this, but something I heard once during a conversation and tbh not sure if it would help at all.

4) I believe, believe not certain, that the majority of classes have alacrity built into them. I was wondering if this would be a benefit to Guard/Jugg DPS. Currently, the top DPS Guard/Juggs sit around 35-36 APM. If say 2-3% alacrity could get us into the 37-38 APM range that could be rather beneficial to the spec.

Edited October 1, 2014 by veSev

Alacrity is a nono IMHO.

 

As for my opinion: For a sustained DPS (And yes, guardians are sustained DPS because they require constant uptime, have low AOE, and VERY LOW mobility, ESPECIALLY for a melee spec. Just because you sorcs and sages can't take an occasional crit doesn't mean guardians suddenly have on demand burst.)

 

That being said, all bioware needs to do, is buff the Damage over Time Effects of Guardians. A LOT. DoT uptime should be more crucial to the spec. If every one of our DoTs hit like Plasma Brand's DoT, Vigilance would be right where it should be. Vigilance should parse as high as Watchman due to A: Low Mobility, and B: Low utility.

 

When people in the same gear as me (in the case of several balance shadow guildmates, WORSE GEAR) are pulling 4k+ numbers, that's a problem, especially if they are surpassing me by 150+ DPS and don't have to deal with any of the mobility problems that I do.

 

My list of fixes:

 

EVEN OUT THE DPS OF MASTER STRIKE. All people ever complain about PVP vig guardians is burst, so EVEN OUT THE DAMN BURST. Make Master Strike do the same damage it does now but at a steadier pace.

 

BUFF OUR DAMN DOTS. WE HAVE THE WEAKEST DOTS INGAME. No other class at full 78s has a DoT that does under 1k damage that lasts 9 seconds. That's horrible.

 

What if there was a talent where Vigilance Guardian buff Damage was doubled when the target is outside of a 10 meter range? It would marginally increase DPS when away from target.

 

I think while crit rate concerns are valid, they will unbalance PVP. Right now, I'm more concerned with sustained DPS. Plus, means more talent points for the class to pick around with meaning, ANNOYING.

 

 

 

Just my two cents.

 

Also try the PTS forum.

Edited August 18, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

All these suggestions would make the juggernaut way to OP. I mean any of these will too drastically affect pvp. They are already the current FOTM. The one suggestion I could possibly agree with is the 30% AOE damage reduction.

Alacrity would help slightly for the times we have to cancel MS to move but I'm not sure that's our best option.

 

I stand behind vesev on this one. in 16 man, as my guild is used to doing, Guardians are not horrible to bring along but as stated, 8 man is where it's at. This is where the progression races take place and as stated above, this game is built towards 8 man teams. I can say this cause i've seen every fight in the NiM content and the damage change from 8 man to 16 man is wildly disproportionate. Say nothing of the fact of the lag 16 man experiences are for most raiders.

 

I also stand behind the fact that we, as Guardian dps, are not in the "worst" position. We are great in PvP and I understand that making us "more viable" to PvE will inherently turn us OP in the arena. However, if we take simply parsing as one aspect of measurement, we can see that every other class except Slingers/Snipers (and us) are hitting 4.2-4.4+K with the low end parses from that spec doing just over 4K,

The Guardians/Juggs and Slingers/Snipers are the two classes that the very top parse is barely cracking 4K. Now slingers have raid utility hence why they are a good choice to take along not to mention range beats out melee in the current content in 80% of the fights.

 

That leaves us. Our armor debuff is taken care of by slingers and mandos and a gaurdian tank if that's in there and "off taunt"...well if you had to pick a class to bring along an off taunt would you bring a 4.3K parsing Shadow/Vanguard or a 3.9K parsing jug?

 

The counter argument to that is the over abundance of defensive CDs we have. This is a byproduct of the fact we are a tanking class and don't get me wrong, they are great as tanks and also spectacular in PvP. I would like to see (without sacrificing to much survivability for PvP) similar changes to how our stances change our abilities, much like the AoE tuant turning threat drop. As an example, make Enure in dps stance increase power or main stat by a percentage for X amount of time. in tank stance it does the 30% health for 10s.

^ Doing that gives the guardians some kind of offensive CD. Cause if you don't have adrenals your only offensive boosts are when relics proc and that could be in the lull of your rotation. And we can't argue that I should try a boundless age relic or something cause if we look at our counterparts (sents) they get both proc relics, berserk or inspiration and adrenals and Anni/Watch in my mind is not a burst spec but like us and more sustained.

 

So i guess if we are meant to be a sustained dps class, fine but let us sustain somewhere close to the competition. If we are going burst, give us the tools to do it.

 

Last but not least, why are we the only class in the game that has to have two different set pieces?

 

oh and one more thing. PLEASE either make my damage worth the amount of obscene roaring I do or nerf my roar (on zen strikes) to be in line with my damage.....no but seriously, it gets annoying.

 

last thing i promise haha, our execute is not an execute. nothing changes for us once we get below 30%. so If we are going to have one, why not make it so it actually makes a difference in those burn phases.

 

Still love you dev team:D

Edited August 18, 2014 by Joran-Koon

Buffing dots I could see.

 

Melee critical chance I like but as grand lord pointed out pvp.

 

What About Possibly Adding A Dot To Our dispatch? Idk something I've thought about before. Wanted to throw it out there.

 

Or maybe like other dot specs. Give our dots a boost on targets under 30%

All these suggestions would make the juggernaut way to OP. I mean any of these will too drastically affect pvp. They are already the current FOTM. The one suggestion I could possibly agree with is the 30% AOE damage reduction.

 

That is a pure PvP point of view, and thus the reasoning for my first statement. I know they are OP in PvP, but we arent even in the ballpark for 8-man competitive NiM content is my problem. There are 2 aspects to this game; not just PvP. And would an increase to DoTs really be that dramatic in PvP? I mean if they increased our DoTs would it be any different than the DoTs of a Vanguard or Shadow? Sure they don't have the CDs of a Guardian, but I've said from the start that the redesign of Focused Defense was unnecessary, and I'd much rather it had stayed a threat drop/damage reduction with zero cost. The only difference I would see between the 3 DPS tank classes if they increase the DoT damage for Guardians is Vanguards would still be without a root, but all three would be comparable. However, I am purely a reg star for PvP, so I cant speak for ranked or competitive pre-mades.

 

Anyways, I am an advocate for any change that makes us more viable in 8-man NiM content. Although, I am not sure about that 10 meter thing Rydarus. That seems like an odd fit for the spec, and it would feel more like a PvP change than a PvE.

 

What About Possibly Adding A Dot To Our dispatch? Idk something I've thought about before. Wanted to throw it out there.

Or maybe like other dot specs. Give our dots a boost on targets under 30%

 

Adding another DoT seems unnecessary. I mean before 30% that would mean a forth DoT going up every 20+ seconds, and below 30% that would be a huge uptime on that DoT. Plus, that's a long CD for a DoT before 30%. I am not opposed to giving us a boost in execute phase since Dispatch in execute phase without a keening proc us useless. But both decent ideas.

 

Little rant here, so you can tune out if you like now. The part that kills me is I've heard Devs say they know the metrics for what classes are most used and what specs are out performing others, but they have failed to see that Guardian/Juggernaut DPS is not being ran by anyone at this time, and for a valid reason. I mean right now its 50/50 on getting Deposer before 2.10 purely because of my class. Right now, i believe Across and I are the few Juggernauts that have seen Council as a DPS, and I really hope one of us gets Deposer at the very least. It seems like the Devs are just oblivious to the issues this one DPS classes faces. Did they fixed alot of the RNG issues with 2.5? (it may have been 2.6 cant remember) Yes, but now that they have continued to overbuff at least 1 spec in every class to a point where we are once again the low man on totem poll. I've wondered for a while now if they actually internally test their content with each class or not. From my perspective, I would say not.

Edited August 18, 2014 by veSev

I think your problem is a difficult one to solve. As you pointed out I was answering from a purely pvp perspective. This is because usually when you change a spec for pve it affects the spec in pvp or vice versa. So although some of those ideas were great to make juggs more pve viable, they simply can not be implemented due to the drastic effects they would have on pvp. As far as the devs not caring about vengeance, a few other specs were worse off for operations by a fairly large margin before a few recent patches. It's only fair to try to make all ACs have at least 1 dps viable spec. Furthermore, you make up a small percentage of the pve population. The majority of players are not attempting NiM content and dps juggs are perfectly fine in the sm/hm ops most people are running. All of that said, I do think your claim is justified. The problem will just have to be solved with a little more tact since there is not an easy solution. Someone mentioned this earlier, but I think the approach is to increase the sustained while sacrificing some burst.

I think your problem is a difficult one to solve. As you pointed out I was answering from a purely pvp perspective. This is because usually when you change a spec for pve it affects the spec in pvp or vice versa. So although some of those ideas were great to make juggs more pve viable, they simply can not be implemented due to the drastic effects they would have on pvp. As far as the devs not caring about vengeance, a few other specs were worse off for operations by a fairly large margin before a few recent patches. It's only fair to try to make all ACs have at least 1 dps viable spec. Furthermore, you make up a small percentage of the pve population. The majority of players are not attempting NiM content and dps juggs are perfectly fine in the sm/hm ops most people are running. All of that said, I do think your claim is justified. The problem will just have to be solved with a little more tact since there is not an easy solution. Someone mentioned this earlier, but I think the approach is to increase the sustained while sacrificing some burst.

 

I think my biggest issue is that Guardian/Juggernauts, although I didnt care as much at the start, has seen 2-3 DPS buffs since launch. To which only 1 of them, from what I have seen, has even brought the Vigilance spec within range of other classes. Comparatively, the Vanguard was the OP mdps class pre 2.0, so OP it could nearly out DPS a commando at range, and now in post 2.8 they are probably the best raid mdps option after a sents utility. Shadows were the OP tanks pre 2.0 and post 2.8 they are the top parsing, which really doesn't mean a whole lot, DPS in game atm and are really interchangeable with Vanguards in current content (it is debatable of course). The Guardian tank pre 2.0 had terrible aggro issues, beyond that I didn't noticed to much between my Vanguard and Guardian tank but again didn't care as much, and in post 2.5 they removed some of the RNG from the spec. While yes, 2.0 granted us a DoT buff and the keening proc, this change basically spread out our execute phase to every 20 secs during an encounter. But your right, the answer to make us more viable in competitive NiM content is a difficult one. I would just like to see something that at least gives me some hope for the DPS spec. I mean my Guardian is now a tank over DPS and I running my slinger for NiM because its just rough. Beyond Nefra, my slinger can out parse my Guardian all day a NiM raid.

What about having a talent that reduces the channel time of Master Strike by 0.35s/0.7s, so that it matches the channel time of a combat sent?

 

This would maybe alleviate some of the mobility issues and also increase dps. Preparation (which is a useless talent) can be replaced for this one.

 

Would this be too OP?

Alacrity is a nono IMHO.

 

I dont really see why - Alacrity may reduce the GCD and desynch stuff, but so does clipping master strike at 2.7 seconds. And if you can do that without screwing yourself over, I dont see how a slight alacrity boost would screw you over.

 

Anyway, my thoughts?

 

Offensive:

Master Strike: Make all 3 hits the same (QoL buff)

DoTs: Double the damage from Overhead Slash + Blade Storm DoTs

Execute Phase: DoTs get +30% damage with Keening.

 

Defensive: Narrowed Focus gives a +30% AoE damage reduction that isn't stance tied

 

Utility: Redesign Preperation, making it passively give a +1/+2% alacrity boost and actively cause combat focus to act as an offensive cooldown (either +damage% or +crit% for the next 6 seconds)

Edited August 19, 2014 by TACeMossie

ALL Melee DPS are currently lacking in Progressional Raiding. Marauders/Sentinels, Assassins/Shadows, Concealment Op/Scondrel Scrapper all suck major balls in the current raid Content because you have to move around so much.

 

Melee DPS have to walk from target to target, destroying their DPS numbers while ranged DPS simply have to tab target and bam, no drop in their DPS numbers.

 

I worked my butt off to raise a Marauder and get her the best gear but it is very annoying to have to walk (cause sprint is disabled!!!) from target to target. it's just not really worth playing MDPS in raids any more.

ALL Melee DPS are currently lacking in Progressional Raiding. Marauders/Sentinels, Assassins/Shadows, Concealment Op/Scondrel Scrapper all suck major balls in the current raid Content because you have to move around so much.

 

Melee DPS have to walk from target to target, destroying their DPS numbers while ranged DPS simply have to tab target and bam, no drop in their DPS numbers.

 

I worked my butt off to raise a Marauder and get her the best gear but it is very annoying to have to walk (cause sprint is disabled!!!) from target to target. it's just not really worth playing MDPS in raids any more.

Right now, i believe Across and I are the few Juggernauts that have seen Council as a DPS, and I really hope one of us gets Deposer at the very least.

 

*Ahem*

I bow out cause i know if the team takes the sent they have a better shot. And having two melee in that fight ain't great cause one of you is gonna get stuck chasing raptus and bestia. Although depending on how ya spec, ops/scoundrels move a little faster and are coincidentally always behind the boss lol.

 

It is truly sad that I may not get my Deposer due to the simple fact that my class isn't good for the fight.

I dont really see why - Alacrity may reduce the GCD and desynch stuff, but so does clipping master strike at 2.7 seconds. And if you can do that without screwing yourself over, I dont see how a slight alacrity boost would screw you over.

 

Anyway, my thoughts?

 

Offensive:

Master Strike: Make all 3 hits the same (QoL buff)

DoTs: Double the damage from Overhead Slash + Blade Storm DoTs

Execute Phase: DoTs get +30% damage with Keening.

 

Defensive: Narrowed Focus gives a +30% AoE damage reduction that isn't stance tied

 

Utility: Redesign Preperation, making it passively give a +1/+2% alacrity boost and actively cause combat focus to act as an offensive cooldown (either +damage% or +crit% for the next 6 seconds)

 

Really like your suggestions. Believe Rydaras mentioned a few of these previously, but feel that all of them together would put us in an amazing position. But sadly, I feel that this will be something we see with the xpac later this year. 1-2 changes they could possibly toss in but not 5.

What about having a talent that reduces the channel time of Master Strike by 0.35s/0.7s, so that it matches the channel time of a combat sent?

 

This would maybe alleviate some of the mobility issues and also increase dps. Preparation (which is a useless talent) can be replaced for this one.

 

Would this be too OP?

 

From a PVP aspect this is OP. It removes one of the major counters to a PVP guardian that most bozos can't pull off: knocking master strike through unremitting. It needs to stay at the exact same channel time for PVP purposes.

 

Also, with the current talent bloat, the selection of talents vigilance takes needs to stay at the current 4/36/6 or else any "buffs" may just even out DPS instead of actually buffing it. Buff the talents we currently take, and either merge or ignore the rest.

Edited August 19, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

I dont really see why - Alacrity may reduce the GCD and desynch stuff, but so does clipping master strike at 2.7 seconds. And if you can do that without screwing yourself over, I dont see how a slight alacrity boost would screw you over.

 

Anyway, my thoughts?

 

Offensive:

Master Strike: Make all 3 hits the same (QoL buff)

DoTs: Double the damage from Overhead Slash + Blade Storm DoTs

Execute Phase: DoTs get +30% damage with Keening.

 

Defensive: Narrowed Focus gives a +30% AoE damage reduction that isn't stance tied

 

Utility: Redesign Preperation, making it passively give a +1/+2% alacrity boost and actively cause combat focus to act as an offensive cooldown (either +damage% or +crit% for the next 6 seconds)

 

 

The Master Strike is a must for the change, it hurts me a little inside when i can't get the last hit off Master Strike because of movement, stun, or knock up.

 

I hope the current 2.10 patch notes are just the small part of what they are planning to release.... not going to get my hopes up tho.

I agree that evening out the damage of master strike across all 3 hits is a good way to go. I also like buffing up the dot damage from Overhead Strke and Blade Storm. In order to even out the Blade Storm damage maybe change the guaranteed crit somehow? Maybe slightly reduce the initial damage on OS (and I do mean SLIGHTLY)

An easy fix to our mobility is decreasing the cast time of Master strike with lets say 1 second.

 

Is it going to be unbalanced in pvp? Maybe a little, but shorter cast means shorter stun from Debilitation.

 

I like the idea of 30% aoe reduction, will help big time in raiding.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Vodamin

Hi, thx for the thread, itwas time that it comes out. Its kinda hard to express feelings about technical points 'cause I'm french but I'll try my best.

 

The real point if I can say so, is that among the three able-to-tank classes, we are the worst of a kind when we talk about dps. As you said, the best dummy parser of us barely reach 4K, and a from beyond parse reach 4089 so there's a +350/400 gap between us and insanity shadows/vangards (maybe due to last updates buffs but seriously that's too much). As it has already been said, we have the worst dots in the game, even though our dots result from physical and directs attacks and thats kinda unique in the game but honnesly ticking at 132 when it doesnt crit? We are the only class without offensive cooldown (oh right, combat focus!) or critical damages boost, armor ignored on attacks, and our only auto crit attack sometimes barely reach 5k without relics!

 

About the PVP, OP style, FOTM and all, they never should had add a skill that allow to root ennemy with master strike which correctly used lock target so much, and the worst of it? 100% proc so 4s root, 3s to make it proc and yay root again, this is horrible, and that's what make gard/jugg that much OP and insane, added to the new design of focused defense which is the most cheated pvp auto-heal of all time, I mean, in a way that's kinda funny to see your hp getting up while smb attacked you but it's really without any sense, cause it doubles gard/jugg survivability and we didnt really need this. So because of that Debiliation skill that shouldnt work evrytime or be completely deleted we're kinda stuck with Vig/Veng PvE efficiency.

 

I was the one who suggest a little alacrity with combat focus, because I have always found guardian gameplay fluidity kinda slow. Anyway here's my suggestions :

 

1) Change bonus set vindicator 2p (honnesly who's got a bonus set that screwed?) and give saber throw melee by default for guardian -> so bonus 4p (8% on blade storm (5,3k average) would be that insane) became 2p and for 4p they have to be a little imaginative and not leave our case to the men who re design focused defense or aoe taunt lol reduce aggro (that work so bad).

 

2) Give us a clear offensive cooldown with combat focus or new skill at 3.0, whatever, but that's the priority if I can say so.

 

3) Naturally buff the dots of BS and OS, or make them auto crits..

 

4) About swift slash, which is clearly a Focus talent, maybe a redesign with as veSev suggest 6% melee crit (maybe when dots crits, maybe a relation with my third point).

 

To conclude this, I am not outcast 'cause of my class in 8Nim content although I currently play in a casual guilde, even if my guildmaster always prefer sents ^^ but I feel sometimes we have to "bleed on our keyboards" to be at level. So we dont demand to be the new dummy fotm, just a best balancing between us and other classes.

 

PS: Oh and thank you CrownofGold, Im sure your participation will count if Bioware team read this

Edited August 20, 2014 by holmeskywalkr

Yeah I don't see any issues really being covered until 3.0 and frankly I'm not overly hopeful that 3.0 is going to solve much if 2.0 was any indication. We might see the additional utility for every class that was promised but I'd be surprised if our dps competitiveness changes. Short of the 2 month period after the RNG was take out of Zen Strike before they buffed every other melee class Vigilance has always been in the bottom 2 or 3 for sustained dps since launch. Which is absolutely ridicolous for a 4m class to be on the bottom.

 

That said I think Tac hit the nail on the head on how best to approach buff the specs damage (well done sir). The only other thing I can think of adding is maybe making Plasma Brand a 10m power for a short ranged leap a la Zealous Leap. That way after your Master Strike you can get right back on the target. This would enable them to cut Debilitate out of the tree if they wanted and it would address mobility issues for both PvE and PvP unlike Debiltate. The only downside is the loss of a control effect (which I'm not sure was necessary) for PvP.

 

But like you suspect VeSev this won't get addressed until they alter Focused Defense otherwise the QQ would be palpable.

Glad to see more of the top Guardian/Juggernaut raiders getting involved. Sorry I miss quoted there Joran-Koon about just myself and Across, but I hope any Guardian/Juggernaut DPS pulling Council gets Deposer. If not, Bioware needs to rethink what they have accomplished with class balancing.

 

1) Change bonus set vindicator 2p (honnesly who's got a bonus set that screwed?) and give saber throw melee by default for guardian -> so bonus 4p (8% on blade storm (5,3k average) would be that insane) became 2p and for 4p they have to be a little imaginative and not leave our case to the men who re design focused defense or aoe taunt lol reduce aggro (that work so bad).

 

Anyways, I completely agree with the reworking of our current set bonus, but the +8% to Blade Storm/Force Scream for the DPS set is really a more well rounded set bonus between both Focus/Vigilance. The saber throw 2 piece needs to be working into the skill tree, for without it the rotation in general falls short without the focus it generates. The question is, what do we change it to? I mean the plus to Master Strike from the Weaponmaster set is great, but I dont see that as beneficial to Sentinels as it is to Guardians. So I would say change the Weaponmaster 2 piece to the Vindicator 4 piece for sure. Beyond that, I would say its tough to determine what would fit best.

 

About the PVP, OP style, FOTM and all, they never should had add a skill that allow to root ennemy with master strike which correctly used lock target so much, and the worst of it? 100% proc so 4s root, 3s to make it proc and yay root again, this is horrible, and that's what make gard/jugg that much OP and insane, added to the new design of focused defense which is the most cheated pvp auto-heal of all time, I mean, in a way that's kinda funny to see your hp getting up while smb attacked you but it's really without any sense, cause it doubles gard/jugg survivability and we didnt really need this.

 

I could not agree with this more. The root, while fitting to our class, made us as OP as we are now. I mean my guild and I were running 4-man premades today for Conquest points and I cant tell you the number of times I took 1 person down with back to back Ravages with roots. It was ridiculous. I would think they could remove that, add more DoT damage, and scale back Focused Defense to say a damage reduction + heals (not nearly what it is now) which is similar to where it was before. I'd also like my AOE taunt back for PvE, but at this point I think that is asking to much.

 

Also, I see a lot of people speaking of leveling out the damage for Master Strike. This would be huge for Council during the Brontes burn. This would allow you to get 2/3 hits off (which occur within the firs 1/2 of the cast) without the possibility of sacrificing the 10k crits from the final blow while avoiding all the archs that spawn. So here is what I think, from what I have read, would be my TOP 5 fixes to the Vigilance spec going forward. They arent in any particular order mind you.

 

1) Work in an offensive cooldown. This could be associated with Combat Focus to limit the number of abilities. The only tough part here, is we need this on its current CD to maintain our current DPS. I would suspect if this was added they would increase its CD which would basically make this void. Although needed, its tough to say it would help.

 

2) Level out Master Strike damage across all three hits. Enough said.

 

3) Buff DoT damage. Either to Blade Storm and Overhead Slash to make them compareable to Plasma Brand, or a general increase across all three. Also, I really like the idea of a 30% increase to DoT damage below 30% similar to other DoT specs.

 

4) AOE Damage Reduction or redesign of Focused Defense to include damage reduction. I'd be more for removing the current root in our skill tree and making it an AOE damage reduction point if they increase the DoT damage. This would, from my perspective, be an even trade for PvP while making us more viable in PvE.

 

5) Only heard this once, but I think it is really needed. Rework the current Vindicator set bonus.

Remember this regarding the Weaponmaster set bonus, Watchman does not use Blade Storm. At all. Period.

Remember this regarding the Weaponmaster set bonus, Watchman does not use Blade Storm. At all. Period.

 

This may be true, but I was more speaking to stealing it for the Vindicator set bonus. And does a +8% to MS really benefit to your class as a whole? When the CD is 25 secs? This is actually a question, for a have little experience with Sentinels.

This may be true, but I was more speaking to stealing it for the Vindicator set bonus. And does a +8% to MS really benefit to your class as a whole? When the CD is 25 secs? This is actually a question, for a have little experience with Sentinels.

 

Even for Focus guardians the master strike bonus is better than the blade storm one. The blade storm one in general is a meh bonus.

melee dps in raids is rough right now, ill work my *** off in some fights only to be out dps'd by a guy i out dps by 200-500 on nefra. the current raids are so anti-melee and its getting old. if movement is the only mechanic you can think of you might wanna replace some staff members...

 

ive leveled a merc and a sniper because im getting sick of melee in the current raids.

Edited August 21, 2014 by thatPERSON