Hello all,

I think i've figured out a relatively simple way that Bioware could improve the overall player participation in GSF as well as the experience for newcomers:

Create a Mentorship Program

-Add 2 weekly quests to the PVP mission terminal.

-1 type of quest can only be accepted by subscribers who have mastered at least 1 ship, this is the mentoring quest and it should pay a very large amount of credits (i'm talking 100k+). In order to complete it the mentor must obtain a number of mentorship tokens, this token can only be earned by playing with someone who is currently on the Greenhorn quest (see quest #2). Having more than one greenhorn in your group grants more than one token.

- The Greenhorn quest is only available to players who have played less than X number of missions and do not have a mastered ship. The quest reward is a large amount of ship requisition (probably equal to the weekly). The Greenhorn completes this quest by running a certain number of matches while in a group with someone who is on the Mentor quest.

What do you guys think?

The idea here is that aces will be incentivized to fly with newbies in 4 man premades of 1 ace to 3 newbies. This both serves to balance out the ques and breakup the experienced pilots every so often. It also hopefully promotes the aces to pass on some guidance to the newbies (if for no other reason than to make flying with them more tolerable). Aces get paid, newbies get experience in a more balanced setting and more reqs to beef up their ships. Everyone wins.

They're good ideas, but I don't know if they'll be effective at addressing griefers.

You know - those idiots that fly the Youtube T2 Scout build all the time, every time, and clearly focus fire on newbies?

Something's gonna have to be done about that sooner rather than later. -bp

Good idea, but x-server and proper matchmaking is STILL the only way to address the core playerbase issues. Every suggestion thread in this forum should be asking for it. No exceptions.

Cross-server queuing will never happen. Period. Especially for GSF. Latency times would likely be absurd.

As far as proper matchmaking is concerned, I don't know WHAT can fix that hot mess. Ranked/Unranked queues? Probably won't stop anyone from queuing improperly if they want to unless the "casual" queue blocks Mastered components, and even that's not a completely proper fix. To be honest, I don't think any of us can really offer a good answer without seeing the algo being used, and I doubt Bioware is interested in showing their homework on that particular math problem. -bp

Cross-server queuing will never happen. Period. Especially for GSF. Latency times would likely be absurd.

 

As far as proper matchmaking is concerned, I don't know WHAT can fix that hot mess. Ranked/Unranked queues? Probably won't stop anyone from queuing improperly if they want to unless the "casual" queue blocks Mastered components, and even that's not a completely proper fix. To be honest, I don't think any of us can really offer a good answer without seeing the algo being used, and I doubt Bioware is interested in showing their homework on that particular math problem. -bp

I understand xserver is beyond the realm of likely for the next few large patch cycles, but I haven't seen anything saying it's not possible, just that it does not currently warrant the resources to implement it. Not asking for it doesn't get us any closer though.

Barring that, increase rewards that tie into the ground game (minimal PVE comms), or increase the vanity items/credits payout, or introduce reputation rewards to grind. I think end of Season 1 demonstrated that a whole crapton of people, even not suited to a given queue, WILL queue if you dangle enough shinies in front of them.

I understand xserver is beyond the realm of likely for the next few large patch cycles, but I haven't seen anything saying it's not possible, just that it does not currently warrant the resources to implement it. Not asking for it doesn't get us any closer though.

 

Barring that, increase rewards that tie into the ground game (minimal PVE comms), or increase the vanity items/credits payout, or introduce reputation rewards to grind. I think end of Season 1 demonstrated that a whole crapton of people, even not suited to a given queue, WILL queue if you dangle enough shinies in front of them.

The logistics of the internet work against us for cross-server queuing. Simply put, there WILL be lag for quite some time, and it's not completely dependent on Bioware writing code that is lag-friendly. Queuing from Cali for an East Coast match is BARELY playable. Imagine how Euros would feel!

Bioware can only write code so tight before the realities of current internet infrastructure catch up to them. By the time the players within the reach and scope of this game (read: the globe) can all have reasonably fast access (read: fiber optic), there's little Bioware can do.

I don't mind asking 'em. But I'm not going to hold my breath on it either given what the digital pipeline is today. Sucks, but it is what it is.

I STRONGLY agree with more rewards along the line of Season 1 ground PvP! Hell, I'd even be fine with a Ranked queue! I think the greatest barrier to entry for new pilots is the fact that us subs have had 5 months to get good at this. Newbie McGee who just subbed today ain't gonna want to put up with all that noise when they've got the rest of the game to play.

Unless, of course... we dangle those shinies. Great idea! -bp

The logistics of the internet work against us for cross-server queuing. Simply put, there WILL be lag for quite some time, and it's not completely dependent on Bioware writing code that is lag-friendly. Queuing from Cali for an East Coast match is BARELY playable. Imagine how Euros would feel!

 

You are correct about the additional lag. But, I have played on west coast servers from the east coast and while there is a noticeable disadvantage it's hardly crippling. Then there's the fact that cross server doesn't have to be game wide. You can have cross server within a particular regions servers, west coast/east coast/european queues.

That's an interesting idea. I am for investigating it.

Hello all,

 

I think i've figured out a relatively simple way that Bioware could improve the overall player participation in GSF as well as the experience for newcomers:

 

Create a Mentorship Program

 

-Add 2 weekly quests to the PVP mission terminal.

 

-1 type of quest can only be accepted by subscribers who have mastered at least 1 ship, this is the mentoring quest and it should pay a very large amount of credits (i'm talking 100k+). In order to complete it the mentor must obtain a number of mentorship tokens, this token can only be earned by playing with someone who is currently on the Greenhorn quest (see quest #2). Having more than one greenhorn in your group grants more than one token.

 

- The Greenhorn quest is only available to players who have played less than X number of missions and do not have a mastered ship. The quest reward is a large amount of ship requisition (probably equal to the weekly). The Greenhorn completes this quest by running a certain number of matches while in a group with someone who is on the Mentor quest.

 

 

What do you guys think?

 

The idea here is that aces will be incentivized to fly with newbies in 4 man premades of 1 ace to 3 newbies. This both serves to balance out the ques and breakup the experienced pilots every so often. It also hopefully promotes the aces to pass on some guidance to the newbies (if for no other reason than to make flying with them more tolerable). Aces get paid, newbies get experience in a more balanced setting and more reqs to beef up their ships. Everyone wins.

You are correct about the additional lag. But, I have played on west coast servers from the east coast and while there is a noticeable disadvantage it's hardly crippling. Then there's the fact that cross server doesn't have to be game wide. You can have cross server within a particular regions servers, west coast/east coast/european queues.

This.

Regional cross-queing would decrease the potential lag issue, and also allow for communication between servers operating in the same time zone to share ques when it's most effective (i.e. the primetime GSF hours). Giving new players an advantage is wrong, but giving new players an opportunity to learn would be helpful given how advanced some of the vets have become (i.e. 1 t1 upgrade from just doing the bloody tutorial... or expanding the tutorial level to 5 or six parts with increasing difficulty that provides t1 upgrades for the major components on your ship (but are only unlocked after completing the whole tutorial), etc. This would be a nicer way of easing them into their eventual facepalming moments when they finally come in contact with the elite GSF guilds

REGIONAL X-server should be the request that GSFers ask for. Coming from a small server to a large one, I've seen both sides of what happens when you either have a lot of ques or none (the players with a lot of ques start to noob stomp and the players without a lot of ques... don't play / create an alt or transfer on/to a new server / may quit the game as the GSF is the only reason they play, which I have seen as well).

The logistics of the internet work against us for cross-server queuing. Simply put, there WILL be lag for quite some time, and it's not completely dependent on Bioware writing code that is lag-friendly. Queuing from Cali for an East Coast match is BARELY playable. Imagine how Euros would feel!

Cross-server doesn't have to be cross-region. You could have an East Coast pool, a West Coast pool, etc.

Cross server PvP would be huge, but it's clear that this would help out the ground game even more than GSF. It's also clear that this is not trivial for Bioware.

It may not be trivial but it also would be by far the single biggest improvement they could make to the game, for all modes - PvE, ground PvP, and GSF.

It may not be trivial but it also would be by far the single biggest improvement they could make to the game, for all modes - PvE, ground PvP, and GSF.

Edited for significance.

I wasn't as informed as I should've been when the devs were doing their streaming (work does that), but when the question was asked about X-servers, was the response entirely dismissive, or "we understand that this is a problem and are looking into ways of addressing the issue" because right now at least, I don't feel like this is something the devs care about. I understand the need for balance in the game, and new content, but given the que times of some servers, they're alienating a decent amount of folks that would be likely to spend some $$ for CCs. Anyone able to fill me in here?

I wouldn't say it won't happen, but it will only happen if they deem the need for it outweighs pushing back their other development goals. With how good this would be for both ground and GSF I cant see why they wouldn't push other stuff back. Breaths life back into every server, so people can play where they want to without transferring with the trends.

All PvP would be more meaningful and my "drive" to play would be much increased.

As to latency, is it really that big of a deal in other games? Some of the people I play with in GSF vary greatly in distance to where the server is located and have 0 visible lag or other issues (in fact they excel the same as any other good pilot) I even know people from the west coast who claim they get better ping on east coast servers etc

Bad connections are just bad and have little to do with distance (well you dont want to queue on a usa westcoast from germany, but inside the US its ok for the most part.)

IMO Cross server would be the single greatest addition to the game since GSF, and would place SWTOR on par with other games in the same genre where pvp is concerned. we NEED cross server, and as soon as possible. I believe that before letting the game wither and die they will choose to do this, I just hope its not too late (like a year from now)

Cross-server queuing will never happen. Period. Especially for GSF. Latency times would likely be absurd.

 

As far as proper matchmaking is concerned, I don't know WHAT can fix that hot mess. Ranked/Unranked queues? Probably won't stop anyone from queuing improperly if they want to unless the "casual" queue blocks Mastered components, and even that's not a completely proper fix. To be honest, I don't think any of us can really offer a good answer without seeing the algo being used, and I doubt Bioware is interested in showing their homework on that particular math problem. -bp

Just thought I'd add my 2c on the lag thing. I play on the Shadowlands and for the past two years I lived in France and used ADSL. My average ping was around 100 ms vs playing in the US (on cable) I have a ping of about 50ms. Unless there was a lag spike, I really didn't feel disadvangaged. From this experience, I don't see cross server PvP adding THAT much lag, especially if they're regional.

There are design issues that need to be addressed if you want to improve GSF (and ground PVP and maybe even PVE.) Start with the game really does need cross-server queuing It's gone from something that would be nice to being a necessity for there to be any chance of matchmaking work right. As it is now, what little matchmaking there is is a total joke.

That leads to number 2, fix the matchmaking algorithm. It's assbackwards now. Match players of equal rating/skill/whatever then create teams from the matched players. the current method of matching players to make teams and then trying to match those teams simply doesn't work. we have all kinds of proof that it's not working and not likely to work in the future.

Once that's done, go back and look at how much advantage upgrades give ships. As it stands now, the advantages are HUGE. People play a few matches, get stomped over and over and quit. Now, with evenly matched teams it's not an issue. But as it stands now, it a HUGE issue. I've about given up playing any newer toons in GSF> I play mostly on one that has well modded ships (and he competes very favorably). There is no fun in playing with unmodded ships on my server. You simply die over and over. I expect that is the biggest cause of dropping participation. The poor design that lead to teams of unmodded or low modded ships not being able to compete against teams with lots of mods is killing it. I've been saying it since open testing on PTS and it hasn't changed.

Myself and many other people have 0 issues flying unmodded ships. Sure its not as good as modded, but its not a bar to your success. The idea that you are so hopelessly disadvantaged that you cant do anything but quit is ridiculous. Being bad at starter ships comes from being inexperienced, and there is no way to fix this without playing. Increase the speed of acquisitions with 1 or 2 of the many suggestions levied here and the curve is a non-point.)

On a side note if they gave the starter ships better weapon choices than RFL it would help. They should be getting premium choices, as it stands your first couple thousand req go into getting parts you can actually use. This IMO is one of the biggest issues affecting newbies in the first couple games and would be very easy to fix.

In another game I play they have a monthly rotating "champion" build that anyone can use, a community chosen chassis and build that gets voted on then implemented (The devs are smart enough to do this themselves, but community aspect is fun). EXP earned goes to the chassis, so that if you buy it later you already have some headway. That could work here as well.

Myself and many other people have 0 issues flying unmodded ships. Sure its not as good as modded, but its not a bar to your success. The idea that you are so hopelessly disadvantaged that you cant do anything but quit is ridiculous. Being bad at starter ships comes from being inexperienced, and there is no way to fix this without playing. Increase the speed of acquisitions with 1 or 2 of the many suggestions levied here and the curve is a non-point.)

Sorry to be blunt, but BS. The mods make a HUGE difference in how the ships perform and how long they survive. A group of mostly unmodded ships against a group of mostly modded ships is extremely one sided regardless f the pilots in the unmodded ships. You don't even need to actually fight the match to know how it will come out. I've flown on both sides of those matches (and it seems to be almost all of them are that way now.)

The biggest problem with GSF is the matchmaking, if it is even happening at all. There aren't enough players to make the matchmaking work. The disparity between new ships and heavily modded ships makes it impossible for newer players (and very hard for veteran players playing on alts) to win. Without any wins you get less reqs so it takes longer to get mods to compete. While the guys with the mods get more mods faster since they get more reqs. Give it a week and the new guy quits. Another new guy starts in a worse spot than the previous new guy. Wash, rinse repeat. At this point its no fun playing on alts and new people get frustrated and quit.

The proof is in the pudding. Queue times are way up. You see the same people in match after match. Most of the matches are 8 v 8 and mostly the same people on both teams. Do the math. There are less and less people playing and new people aren't staying. That doesn't bode well at all.

The fixes are limited. 1) Cut back how much mods improve the ships. Cut them back substantially (50-75%) 2) change the matchmaking algorithm so it doesn't make teams then try to match them (same problem as ranked PVP, I expect it's the same algorithm). It has to match players then make teams. 3) Cross-server queuing. That's the only way to get enough players in queue to make any sort of matchmaking work. When you have too few players to even make 12v12 matches, there is no hope for matchmaking.

If they added a "Pilot Skill" bar like valor, you can have a decently accurate guage for how able a player is giving the amount of game that they've played / kills / heals / other metrics / etc. That way, If someone has a pilot skill of 35-40, there should be one pilot of 35-40 on the other side before the same side gets another player of equal skill... This would definitely be complicated for group queing though, and with the limited amount of players currently queuing, may prove too difficult until a regional cross-server is implemented. Once the x-server goes live (if ever), then you'd be able to orchestrate a more sophisticated match making system than "You que'd first, and despite all of you having 5 ships with 500+ matches, you're gonna be on the same team against these 8 noobs with 0-15 games and 2 ships".

So in summary:

1) Add Regional Cross-Server Queuing for GSF (ground PVP can have it too )

2) Add a "Pilot Skill" bar, but call it whatever the bloody hell you'd like, and create metrics to increase that skill

3) Base matchmaking more along the lines of team composition rather than FIFO

4) Enjoy a much better and competitive experience

Sorry to be blunt, but BS. The mods make a HUGE difference in how the ships perform and how long they survive. A group of mostly unmodded ships against a group of mostly modded ships is extremely one sided regardless f the pilots in the unmodded ships. You don't even need to actually fight the match to know how it will come out. I've flown on both sides of those matches (and it seems to be almost all of them are that way now.)

 

The biggest problem with GSF is the matchmaking, if it is even happening at all. There aren't enough players to make the matchmaking work. The disparity between new ships and heavily modded ships makes it impossible for newer players (and very hard for veteran players playing on alts) to win. Without any wins you get less reqs so it takes longer to get mods to compete. While the guys with the mods get more mods faster since they get more reqs. Give it a week and the new guy quits. Another new guy starts in a worse spot than the previous new guy. Wash, rinse repeat. At this point its no fun playing on alts and new people get frustrated and quit.

 

The proof is in the pudding. Queue times are way up. You see the same people in match after match. Most of the matches are 8 v 8 and mostly the same people on both teams. Do the math. There are less and less people playing and new people aren't staying. That doesn't bode well at all.

 

The fixes are limited. 1) Cut back how much mods improve the ships. Cut them back substantially (50-75%) 2) change the matchmaking algorithm so it doesn't make teams then try to match them (same problem as ranked PVP, I expect it's the same algorithm). It has to match players then make teams. 3) Cross-server queuing. That's the only way to get enough players in queue to make any sort of matchmaking work. When you have too few players to even make 12v12 matches, there is no hope for matchmaking.

I never said they dont make a BIG difference they do. I said they are not a bar to success (which is true) ill post the screens to prove it, and if you really want ill get everyone I know to post theirs so you can be proved wrong that people "can't" be successful with unmodded ships.

They make a really big difference and they take a while to unlock, which is why i think the curve needs to be shorter. Players should have more chances to earn req, increased req gains, bonus's for playing while a cadet etc all in order to get people into those components faster. It needs to be based on "player actions" not by a grand changing of the games component unlock trees.

Loosening the curve by neutering the high level gameplay is a bad idea, its a bad idea in every game its ever been implemented in and all of those games suffered even more losses since the veterans were leaving as fast as the new players.

As far as longer queue times, that is subjective to what server you play on, people are currently switching servers in DROVES trying to find a place where the queues are popping faster.... on the servers people are leaving yah your going to see a increase in queue time, this is natural and not an indicator of the game overall. On Bastion the queues are the same as they have ever been, maybe better than before 2.7 even.

I don't think the answer is flattening the tiers or giving everything away for free, working for the upgrades helps you learn your ship with and without them (so you can be successful even when your cooldowns are all up) People who make it through the process are better pilots because they did the time in the ship to get good. I think we need to offer players more opportunities to play the game and earn more req. Make it easier for them to level up with their "actions" .

I agree with you on several things, but the idea that people cant be successful in starter ships or that everything should be dramatically decreased in terms of components is flawed. Lets keep it engrossing and unlock based but give the people the tools they need (cross server + MM + tutorials + competent starter ship components) and then give them the incentive to play more (increased rewards, more opportunites, 2x exp and item stuff etc) and see where it goes from there. Call me crazy but this would increase people playing GSF since if they want to be proactive and unlock faster than a month or two they have an option (play more + complete more dalies etc)

Give GSFers exclusive access to a cool mount like the rancor with its own reputation tier to grind to access. People would queue in droves regardless of the other things that need to be done like x-server, balance issues, etc., because, shinies!*

*All the other things like x-server, real matchmaking, etc. are still very important for the long term health of gsf, but just stating a potential "quick" fix.

Give GSFers exclusive access to a cool mount like the rancor with its own reputation tier to grind to access. People would queue in droves regardless of the other things that need to be done like x-server, balance issues, etc., because, shinies!*

 

*All the other things like x-server, real matchmaking, etc. are still very important for the long term health of gsf, but just stating a potential "quick" fix.

This^^

I wouldn't mind seeing a vendor on fleet with armor, mounts and possibly blue and purple level appropriate goodie bags similar to the ones you can buy with planet comms. If the stuff was purchasable with fleet rep we would have "tangible" rewards that exist outside the vacuum of GSF.

It would also generate revenue for BW when/if people buy CC to convert ship rep to fleet rep to buy stuff.