The healing factor of ED seems a bit overtuned. Combined with their defensives and a medpac, they can heal to full. Intentional?

Update:

Apparently not

We actually feel that Guardian/Juggernaut survivability is a bit too good right now. In fact, we are currently planning to reduce the duration of Focused/Enraged Defense down to 10 seconds (currently, 30 seconds) in the 2.8 update.

Source

It is an amazing DCD in a 1v1. But under focus fire, it won't even tick thrice.

Actually under focus fire is my focal PoV over 1v1...

It is an amazing DCD in a 1v1. But under focus fire, it won't even tick thrice.

Under focus fire no one survives other than marauders who are using UR, and they pay a heavy price after it is over. And it can be used for more than 1 v 1 battles, you can even do a 2 v 1 with it. It is essentially a free life.

Actually under focus fire is my focal PoV over 1v1...

Well, there have been times I've popped it and healed for 32k. There have been times I've popped it and died 2 globals later.

Well, there have been times I've popped it and healed for 32k. There have been times I've popped it and died 2 globals later.

And you think there is nothing odd about a DPS healing for 32k ... passively ... over a series of 30 seconds (5 eternities in PvP)?

Well, there have been times I've popped it and healed for 32k. There have been times I've popped it and died 2 globals later.

32k seems a bit much for a DPS / Tank class, doesn't it?

32k seems a bit much for a DPS / Tank class, doesn't it?

I don't know. Around what format is Bioware balancing the game? Regs? Yolo? 4s? A happy medium?

I just think the duration is a bit long. If it had the same effect for a shorter duration I think it would be fine.

8 seconds should be fine.

8 seconds should be fine.

I would make it 5 seconds duration with the same amount of charges so its a "oh sh*t im getting focused" button rather than a heal to full dcd on 1v1.

I would make it 5 seconds duration with the same amount of charges so its a "oh sh*t im getting focused" button rather than a heal to full dcd on 1v1.

This part. I'm wondering if this part is intentional?

Is there a visible animation so we can see when this is up (besides watching buff bar) so it can be seen when not to attack? Thus a reasonable counter of just not attacking when it is. In the frey of battle when its up goes up its hard to tell what's bringing hp up, medpack, healer, etc. Other classes have visible animations for resilience, sorc/sage god bubble, etc.

And yes 30s is too long. Acually an eternity in PvP.

While this defensive cooldown is quite hilarious at times (by that I mean seemingly OP), I think its balanaced as is. I found it odd that the Tank Jug/guardian doesn't get a boost to this ability, or at least the other dps specs didnt' get a nerf (assuming the tank version was the live version), but no big deal.

Its on a very long cooldown making it balanced for arenas that likely will only get it off once per round, and balanced in 8v8s because there is incredible focus fire (or can be). It only seems really ridiculous in 1v1s. But that class has been labeled a 'joke' for pvp and arenas for such a long time that they needed something. Now they finally got something worth while. I don't think its OP nor over the top imo.

The healing factor of ED seems a bit overtuned. Combined with their defensives and a medpac, they can almost heal to full. Intentional?

Honestly I agree, and I've mained a Vigi guardian since RotHC. I've been stunned ~30% hp, popped it and come out of the stun with near full health. While this has lead to a few hilarious 1v2 victories, I'd be lying if I said it felt balanced. Undying Rage looks like a joke in comparison.

The original FD was fine imo, it just needed its cost lowered/removed.

With the buff for ranged classes, IMO this dcd is more than fine. Jugg/Guardian jumping in the middle of the enemy to put pressure on the healers ins't an easy job. Jugg/Guardian pre-2.7 lack a good DCD.

They could give Cloak Of Pain/Rebuke to the class instead of buffing ED.

Stealth classes are also melees but they are not supposed to facetank the enemy.

Try to cry and whine more

And this is two-sided sword dude, lets whine about your own main class too.

With the buff for ranged classes, IMO this dcd is more than fine. Jugg/Guardian jumping in the middle of the enemy to put pressure on the healers ins't an easy job. Jugg/Guardian pre-2.7 lack a good DCD.

 

They could give Cloak Of Pain/Rebuke to the class instead of buffing ED.

 

Stealth classes are also melees but they are not supposed to facetank the enemy.

Once again, the DCD is not the problem. It is the time it is up. It is up for 30 seconds, it is passive and heals up to full. This makes it easy for a vengeance to 2 v 1, something that should not even be possible.

You would have to do 2x as much damage as him just to keep up, or kite him for 30 seconds. That of course is not counting any other DCDs he has.

I find it funny that the same people who complained about an op HEALER's emergency medpack spamming, which could only be done while under 30% health and was an ACTIVE move that cost 1 GCD, are defending something similar, except it is passive, on a DPS and doesn't stop at 30% but can go up to full health.

I just can't wait to see a 1v1 tournament on Pot5, and the quarter, semi and the finals are all Vengeance Juggs trying to out-ED each other.

Having done some dueling with a Veng jugg on my madness sorc, ED is a major headache. The nature of the ability being reactive creates issues for DoT classes, since the damage applied is very low but multiple dots do damage over many ticks in a short amount of time. This pretty much instantly heals the jugg from execute range to full -- no dot will do more damage than a single tick of ED heal.

I would make it 5 seconds duration with the same amount of charges so its a "oh sh*t im getting focused" button rather than a heal to full dcd on 1v1.

^^

This right here. There needs to be a way to wait it out if the mechanics of it are to remain unchanged.

It is an amazing DCD in a 1v1. But under focus fire, it won't even tick thrice.

Not true exactly, considering there's no minimum spacing between heal procs. 3 people damage you 4 times each over the course of 5 seconds? You get healed for 30k or whatever it is (don't quote me on that number).

I just can't wait to see a 1v1 tournament on Pot5 and the quarter, semi and the finals are all Vengeance Juggs trying to out-ED each other.

 

Having done some dueling with a Veng jugg on my madness sorc, ED is a major headache. The nature of the ability being reactive creates issues for DoT classes, since the damage applied is very low but multiple dots do damage over many ticks in a short amount of time. This pretty much instantly heals the jugg from execute range to full -- no dot will do more damage than a single tick of ED heal.

Vengeance vs. Vengeance matchups are very tricky, because Vengeance has a ton of low-damage, fast-ticking dots, which are needed to proc Destroyer, which means ED will heal to full every time. Whoever uses ED last will have the upper hand, but if you wait too long, you die.

I still think Madness/Hybrid sorcs are better than Vengeance Juggs, even post-ED. That makes ED's balance rather troublesome -- it's very annoying to fight against, and it does give Vengeance a do-over for a single fight, but it has a very long cooldown, and is also the only thing keeping Vengeance viable in rated teams -- not overpowered, viable. Without it, Vengeance just doesn't last long enough to make its sustained damage work, because it has very little burst, no big damage reduction talents (outside of an extra 15% during a self-heal that reverses itself after 10 seconds), and is as vulnerable to kiting as ever, so to give it a fighting chance, it needs to be able to last through a beating.

Not true exactly, considering there's no minimum spacing between heal procs. 3 people damage you 4 times each over the course of 5 seconds? You get healed for 30k or whatever it is (don't quote me on that number).

True, but as long as each attack was worth more than 3000 damage, a rather low and common number, the best it does is negate or reduce the damage taken, not heal you. I've hit ED and still been dead 2 globals later unless I hit another cooldown simultaneously.

^^

 

This right here. There needs to be a way to wait it out if the mechanics of it are to remain unchanged.

The problem with that is, Enraged Defense is rather useless against focus fire. Saber Ward is the cooldown you use when you're getting focused, and if you're REALLY getting focused, Saber Ward + Enraged Defense can help you last through it -- but right off the bat, that's our two best cooldowns, both used for one moment, neither of which will be back for a good while. Saber Reflect is very situational, and has a super short duration. Endure Pain reverses everything it did to help you after 10 seconds. ED is a very important cooldown for keeping Juggernauts viable at all, now that Rage is nerfed. Reducing ED to 5 seconds would mean it needs a boost elsewhere to remain competitive (such as a major cooldown reduction), and I know that's not what you're trying to accomplish.