The Assassin Questions

Forming the Assassin questions was not a walk in the park, but thanks to the awesome Assassin / Shadow community we were able to pinpoint most of our problems without watering it down into several misleading details. We're going to get right to the point without wasting your time. The Assassin questions are straightforward because our problems are right in the open.

Madness in PvP

The Madness Assassin has been grossly revamped from its original state pre-xpac, which in turn has caused many players to become repulsed by its current playstyle. Due to the changes, Madness also suffered a dramatic hit in PvP, losing access to its Insta-Whirlwind utility and the loss of Maul procs which also goes to hurt its burst potential. In addition, the spec suffers from being far too easy to kill (having no true stealth benefits) with no real execution power to actually down targets beyond fluff damage, therefore making it seemingly a useless fighter on the field in comparison to what other classes / specs can do.

With no team utility, lack of kill power and absurdly low survivability, what exactly is the purpose of a Madness Assassin on the battlefield? Are there any plans to alter or change the viability of the spec in PvP?

PvE Assassin's Capability

Both DPS specs of the Assassin: Deception and Madness currently suffer from their own unique hindrances that puts us behind on the DPS markers by a fair amount.

Whilst Deception may be performing alright in PvP, its PvE mirror isn't exactly optimal, suffering from high fluctuations spawned by RNG elements such as the ability to land critical hits which may make or break Deception's DPS output or the current rate limit's incarnation. Due to its dependency on high surge talents or its random force regeneration mechanics, the spec can perform great when the stars align but when they don't - it severely falls behind.

Then Madness' target switching capability seems lacking whilst the rotation itself feels clunky, as if something is missing. It is the only spec that does not utilize the signature ability Maul and generally feels starved for force within its Thrash-spamming rotation. The top-end Madness ceiling feels low, relative to the balance norm, and looking at top damage dealers seen here or here on the Operations dummy and on a large number of boss fights confirms this. A burst filler such as Maul, Force Lightning, Shock or even a proc that triggers Assassinate could help to solve the missing link and raise the DPS ceiling in line with similar classes.

The stated intent of all DPS classes is to perform within the 5% bracket. Do you actually feel Assassins are performing up to par in that design intentl? Are there any plans to help us out in this area?

The Phase Walk Enigma

While Phase Walk finds a solid use in PvP or even for the Assassin Tank in PvE, the PvE DPS variants of the Assassin have practically no use for the ability. Outside a random escape or perhaps a near impractical situation, is it safe to argue this ability was solely formed for the tank or geared specifically for the Assassin’s PvP arsenal?

If so, are there any planned changes to make it more viable for the PvE DPS Assassin?

Feedback

• Force and Tech abilities still bypass Force Shroud occasionally. The tooltip expresses 100% resistance. Are there plans to alter the tooltip or fix this game-breaking mechanic?
  
• Debuff / Buff tracking issues that may cause irritation, mainly in Madness.
  
• Dark Protection can use a slight adjustment to its uptime that may allow the Assassin more flexibility.
  
• Due to PvE Darkness changes, PvP has suffered a hit. The Assassin tank is a less mobile and an outright inferior tank in comparison to the highly mobile, highly defensive juggernaut who also contains an absurd amount of group viability or even the Powertech which has access to both defensive and offensive output at the same time, nearly eradicating the use for an Assassin tank in competitive PvP.
  
• Changes done to Madness immunity procs have not helped the spec at all in PvP. The core problems still remain.
  
• Changes to Maul and VS have not solved Deception's sustainability issues.
  
• Operative CC Breaker does not remove them from stealth but the Assassin's version does - intentional?
  
• Lacerate does not proc CrD in Madness even though it's a melee attack.
  
• Phase Walk sometimes bugs out, the ability activates but does nothing and goes on cooldown.
  

Notes

A special thanks to KBN, along with both Shadow and Assassin communities for helping to organize this. We seemingly do not have a dramatic set of problems, but we do walk on some thorns. Our issues may not require major overhauls, especially in the case of Deception which performs smoothly in PvP. I'd also like to thank the staff at BW, including the developers and Eric Musco for giving us this opportunity to voice our concerns. Thanks once again.

I'm happy you kept an open minded question in relation to the Phase Walk subject.

Even though I'm not sure it was the right decision to do the same with the actual DPS issue, however we will soon find out

Don't forget to post this on the Shadow board btw!

I'm happy you kept an open minded question in relation to the Phase Walk subject.

Even though I'm not sure it was the right decision to do the same with the actual DPS issue, however we will soon find out

 

 

Don't forget to post this on the Shadow board btw!

I didn't want to over suggest anything because changes can screw up things you don't want it too. Surprisingly, I thought of you when I wrote that part. Also thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Is it also worth mentioning how much the drain on force, the madness spec is?

It doesn't really, it just requires more use of saber strike. You shouldn't be using shock in madness.

I didn't want to over suggest anything because changes can screw up things you don't want it too. Surprisingly, I thought of you when I wrote that part. Also thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Yeah I was just talking to someone. Im not sure how I never noticed it before tbh.. -_-'

FYI They've acknowledged the skill tree inconsistency and plan on addressing it with 2.7.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7290449#edit7290449

Yeah I was just talking to someone. Im not sure how I never noticed it before tbh.. -_-'

Yea, difference in skill trees came up when we were discussing about openers. Anyway that change doesn't pretty much change anything since u still need that point to somewhere to get VS. Would be nice if you could place that 1 point to Electric Execution or something.

Anyways we shall see what moves BW makes with assassin/shadow's.

Anyways we shall see what moves BW makes with assassin/shadow's.

Don't hold your breath. Not saying that to be a downer, I mean don't expect things that simply may not come, just be realistic about what might.

The schedule hasn't changed, has it? We're still due to submit on April 25th, correct?

That's correct.

Don't hold your breath. Not saying that to be a downer, I mean don't expect things that simply may not come, just be realistic about what might.

Yea, I doubt that they will remake whole class but maybe they have something in mind since they have removed some RNG factors from other classes like juggernauts.

One thing I like to say and have said it several times. Recklessness stacks going in waste in situation like this happens: You non-crit discharge, crit shock (1 stack) and then chain-shock uses second stack. Might work as intended but imo that is quite annoying. Annoying but something you can live with.

Also there is separate RNG for chain-shock. I doesn't automatically do 50% of shock dmg since it rolls crit separately for it. I'd change it so it does the 50% dmg of the shock. Crit shock -> crit chain-shock, non-crit shock -> non-crit chain-shock.

Anyways, lets see what dev's answer in the future.

Yea, difference in skill trees came up when we were discussing about openers. Anyway that change doesn't pretty much change anything since u still need that point to somewhere to get VS. Would be nice if you could place that 1 point to Electric Execution or something.

Anyways we shall see what moves BW makes with assassin/shadow's.

Put it in the 10 extra force. It'll slightly help your management.. it's not much but it's something.

I think phase walk pvp usefulness is overstated. To ignore it in the question is a mistake IMO.

Not at all..

The very fact that you even say this boggles my mind..

Not at all..

 

The very fact that you even say this boggles my mind..

The fact that you state otherwise boggles my mind.

The fact that you state otherwise boggles my mind.

It's a great tool for escaping, guarding, and returning to help defend nodes in most WZs. It's also great for getting back to the ball spawn point, or getting behind the defense in Huttball.

I like the ability, and yes, wish it had more usefulness in PvE (though I do use it some encounters). Although I do wish it had a "Range to Target" feature that tells you exactly how far away from its placement you are.

It's a great tool for escaping, guarding, and returning to help defend nodes in most WZs. It's also great for getting back to the ball spawn point, or getting behind the defense in Huttball.

 

I like the ability, and yes, wish it had more usefulness in PvE (though I do use it some encounters). Although I do wish it had a "Range to Target" feature that tells you exactly how far away from its placement you are.

You could already do those things before phasewalk was implemented. My biggest gripe with the ability is that it is redundant.

You could already do those things before phasewalk was implemented. My biggest gripe with the ability is that it is redundant.

Why do you say it's redundant? Phase Walk is one of the best PvP abilities in the game. It can be used whilst under the effects of CC, essentially making it an alternative breaker that can buy you time to resealth. I'm not convinced the PvP side needs help when it comes to the ability.

You could already do those things before phasewalk was implemented. My biggest gripe with the ability is that it is redundant.

You definitely don't know what Phase Walk is capable of doing in the right hands if you truely believe that.

Why do you say it's redundant? Phase Walk is one of the best PvP abilities in the game. It can be used whilst under the effects of CC, essentially making it an alternative breaker that can buy you time to resealth. I'm not convinced the PvP side needs help when it comes to the ability.

Considering that you're still cc'ed after you use it's not really an alternative break. It's redundant because it replicates what assassins could already do albeit more streamlined but still essentially the same. Juxtaposed to the other ac's there 51 abilities brought something they could not do before. But if you believe that phasewalk its one of the the best PVP abilities in the game we're not going to see eye to eye on this issue, so i'll leave it at that.

You definitely don't know what Phase Walk is capable of doing in the right hands if you truely believe that.

Or maybe you don't know how to do those things without the use of phasewalk.

Or maybe you don't know how to do those things without the use of phasewalk.

Yeah right. I guess I need to L2P.

You just lost all credibility you had left, sir.

Actually one QOL change they could make for Phasewalk, is not only can it be a deaggro ability (for DPS specs), but lets say you've got something channeled on you, that as soon as you use it, it stops the channel. Currently, if there is nothing to LOS, if you use phasewalk while someone or something is channeling an ability on you, you'll still be hit with it, this way, phase walk would be like a disconnect ability, just like going into stealth.

Though I would prefer something offensive to do with phasewalk, such as the madness ability I mentioned a while back.

yeah right. I guess i need to l2p.

 

You just lost all credibility you had left, sir.

lol....

Considering that you're still cc'ed after you use it's not really an alternative break. It's redundant because it replicates what assassins could already do albeit more streamlined but still essentially the same. Juxtaposed to the other ac's there 51 abilities brought something they could not do before. But if you believe that phasewalk its one of the the best PVP abilities in the game we're not going to see eye to eye on this issue, so i'll leave it at that.

Killing a shadow in gcw about 10m from the node, realise a scoundrels behind it and started capping, you got lowslashed and the guys casting ww, no breaker left, what do you do? Personally I hit phasewalk and appear behind the guy who tried to los me and cap.

Ranked 4v4, your tank & heal just got feared and you've got a carnage mara opening up on you while hardstunned, what do you do? Personally I hit phasewalk and laugh at his ravage wastage.

Soloranked, 1v1 at the end, fighting a jug with more hp than you and you need to heal, do you vanish and risk his taunt getting off? Or do you vanish and teleport across the map to heal in safety before 1v1ing him? Personally I'd hit phasewalk.

Please enlighten us to your phasewalk-is-useless logic.

Killing a shadow in gcw about 10m from the node, realise a scoundrels behind it and started capping, you got lowslashed and the guys casting ww, no breaker left, what do you do? Personally I hit phasewalk and appear behind the guy who tried to los me and cap.

 

Ranked 4v4, your tank & heal just got feared and you've got a carnage mara opening up on you while hardstunned, what do you do? Personally I hit phasewalk and laugh at his ravage wastage.

 

Soloranked, 1v1 at the end, fighting a jug with more hp than you and you need to heal, do you vanish and risk his taunt getting off? Or do you vanish and teleport across the map to heal in safety before 1v1ing him? Personally I'd hit phasewalk.

 

Please enlighten us to your phasewalk-is-useless logic.

Thing is, I can't enlighten you to my phasewalk-is-useless logic because I said phasewalk-is-redundant. Besides my opinion doesn't really matter anymore because I lost all credibility. So my insights into this discussion are done. You people think phasewalk is great, I think its meh. It is what it is.